Additional Journeys over part of a route.

[Dai Corner]

A discussion in local social media has highlighted a rule that if an operator wants to operate additional journeys over part of a route they must register them with the Traffic Commissioner first.

However, it's ok to operate additional journeys over the complete route apparently.

Can anyone confirm this and give a rationale for this rule?

 

[carlberry]

A discussion in local social media has highlighted a rule that if an operator wants to operate additional journeys over part of a route they must register them with the Traffic Commissioner first.

However, it's ok to operate additional journeys over the complete route apparently.

Can anyone confirm this and give a rationale for this rule?

Section 11 of the below says they can operate part route:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...tions_-_England__except_London__and_Wales.pdf

 

[SCH117X]

Additionally if a service is registered as Frequent then additional services can be run over all or part.

 

[Dai Corner]

Thanks Carl and SCH117X

I probably should have linked to the Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/anslowcoaches/status/1199712044339146753?s=21

 

[Busaholic]

'Duplicate' vehicles may run over all or part of a route when circumstances dictate, sticking as closely as possible to the standard timings of the journeys being duplicated, without need to vary a registration with the T.C. There is a caveat - if duplication becomes too regular a feature of the service, then the T.C. MIGHT consider the situation needs to be dealt with by a new registration.

 

[njlawley]

Unregistered duplicate journeys are allowed if they are meant to cater for a short period of unexpected high demand. If they are become a more permanent feature, then they must be registered with the OTC - be it a few months or full time.

Naturally, if the duplicate is within a "frequent intervals" section, then no action is required.

 

[Dai Corner]

Unregistered duplicate journeys are allowed if they are meant to cater for a short period of unexpected high demand. If they are become a more permanent feature, then they must be registered with the OTC - be it a few months or full time.

Naturally, if the duplicate is within a "frequent intervals" section, then no action is required.

Both competing operators operate a 10 minute frequency. Do they have to explicitly declare their services as 'frequent'? There's no shortage of capacity in my experience.

 

[Mwanesh]

Phil Anslow is loosing money on that route. He only does 3 stops he tried the whole route and withdrew it. He always moans about Stagecoach on facebook. A few weeks he did blame Stagecoach for stopping him from operating a route. One day they will sue him for slander. If you post a negative comment he blocks you.

 

[Busaholic]

Both competing operators operate a 10 minute frequency. Do they have to explicitly declare their services as 'frequent'? There's no shortage of capacity in my experience.

Operators can choose not to publish a timetable for a frequent service, defined as one where the interval between buses is of ten minutes or less. All other conditions apply to frequent services, apparently, so I'd say if you produced a public timetable you should stick to it and only operate extra journeys as an exception. On the other hand, if you chose to be vague and said something like 'then every 5-10 minutes until 18.30' ( for example) then you could introduce extra buses on to that 10 minute interval service with impunity. I should add, that's just my reading of the Gov.UK notes, and I stand to be corrected.

 

[njlawley]

Both competing operators operate a 10 minute frequency. Do they have to explicitly declare their services as 'frequent'? There's no shortage of capacity in my experience.

That's up to the operator, and it does have its advantages. If they so wished, they could increase the frequency at short notice without the need to register the change. Changes can also be made to timings within the frequent intervals section, as long as the minimum level of service is met. Again, great if there are reliability tweaks that are needed at short notice.

 

[carlberry]

Thanks Carl and SCH117X

I probably should have linked to the Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/anslowcoaches/status/1199712044339146753?s=21

I cant see how somebody could have already defined it as illegal as that would be up to the traffic commissions who don't react that quickly usually!

 

[Megafuss]

Unregistered duplicate journeys are allowed if they are meant to cater for a short period of unexpected high demand. If they are become a more permanent feature, then they must be registered with the OTC - be it a few months or full time.

Naturally, if the duplicate is within a "frequent intervals" section, then no action is required.

Interesting rule with duplicates I was told a senior manager at a bus company. If you register a duplicate trip it cannot be eligible for BSOG (only the "original" trip is), whereas "ad-hoc" dupes are eligible under additional mileage. Sounds like something which could be open to abuse if true

 

[SCH117X]

Do they have to explicitly declare their services as 'frequent'? .

"Frequent Service" has to be in the VOSA registration - should be simple to check
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/

 

[Busaholic]

Interesting rule with duplicates I was told a senior manager at a bus company. If you register a duplicate trip it cannot be eligible for BSOG (only the "original" trip is), whereas "ad-hoc" dupes are eligible under additional mileage. Sounds like something which could be open to abuse if true

I'd suggest it was something honoured more in the breach than the observance, but I could be being cynical.

 

[njlawley]

Interesting rule with duplicates I was told a senior manager at a bus company. If you register a duplicate trip it cannot be eligible for BSOG (only the "original" trip is), whereas "ad-hoc" dupes are eligible under additional mileage. Sounds like something which could be open to abuse if true

No, a registered duplicate journey can claim BSOG. The only exception would be if the entire service was ineligible, e.g. a special event service or one registered as a "schools or works service".

(In case you're wondering, BSOG claims are something I have a lot of involvement with!)