The last southbound overnight Megabus I took did Glasgow Buchanan St to London Green line Bus station in 7 hrs 2 mins including about 10 mins for driver changeover at Forton Services, about 20 miles of 50 mph average speed cameras have gone on the M6 since then. Knock off 15 mins starting from Euston vice Victoria and even Edinburgh wouldn't be that far fetched. We didn't use the M6 toll not sure how much time that saves.
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Caledonian Sleeper
- Thread starter Essexman
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2245 for 0615 from Buchanan Street to Victoria (ie 7 and a half hours) on Megabus on Tuesday night - M74, M6, M6 toll, M42, M40, M25, M4 - non-stop except for driver change somewhere. I would have thought 2350 for 0707 should be doable from Glasgow although you are an hour later in the London traffic. Might be a shade more difficult from Edinburgh.
M6 toll will save nothing overnight, unless there’s roadworks on the M6 proper.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Well. Another reason I travel more and more by coach. The train is so expensive and you are not buying any reliability for the price. If I am going to end up on a coach then I might as well pay for..... a coach.
I have been stuffed by railway engineering closures involving coaches. Invariably going by coach for the whole journey would have been quicker, less faff changing vehicles/modes and a lot cheaper.
I fear the railways give in too easily especially for the price charged.
I have been stuffed by railway engineering closures involving coaches. Invariably going by coach for the whole journey would have been quicker, less faff changing vehicles/modes and a lot cheaper.
I fear the railways give in too easily especially for the price charged.
gray1404
Established Member
CS should have arranged ticket acceptance on other TOCs on both this evenings services and for travel tomorrow on daytime TOCS. This should have been in addition to them arranging an overnight coach. Their website displayed no warning information about the trains they cancelled. They should have been asking customers to call them for either a refund or to rebook for another day.
Really poor show. They should have given their customers options.
Really poor show. They should have given their customers options.
gray1404
Established Member
Just checked the service alternation page on the CS website. It has not been updated since 24 November.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They seem to manage it on the rare (or not so rare) occasion when the trains run late. Unfortunately, the railway often seems to look for reasons not to run something rather than try and find solutions on how to.
They are also quite good at designing things for minimum flexibility, such as LHCS using non-standard couplings (so you can't just bang any D-lok on the front) and that gets confused if you swap a couple of coaches round. The absolute pits of design, that.
Don't get me started either, I spoke at length about it in this very thread a couple of months ago.
It is odd that a fifteen year Franchise (or whatever it is) doesn’t have a suitable plan B if the power is down.... it’s almost as if they know that is someone else’s problem (public purse/contractor). I used to love the WCML diversions around the NW on summer Sundays. All sorts of random locos hauling 86s and 87s and their coaches around... I am Sure the drivers did well out of their OT as well. So would volunteer for it. Plus more possession time on maintenance for WCML infrastructure. It’s just a shame the entire thing is pegged off contract metrics not service these days.
Thing is, though, that's all that's currently required of them under the NRCoT. As I've said before, I would love to see someone challenge them on it under the Consumer Rights Act*, because I really don't think CS have a leg to stand on, given their advertising but, until someone does, they seem content to keep doing the minimum that's required of them.Don't get me started either, I spoke at length about it in this very thread a couple of months ago.
* Though if they've got any sense, CS would just settle any claim out of court to avoid setting a precedent, as other TOCs have done in the past.
My son was booked on the sleeper last night from Glasgow to London, to be at Waterloo Network Rail offices, he booked into a hotel for an extra night through work, and traveling back down on the sleeper tonight instead.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They really need to give consideration to replacement flights, not buses. Charter an aircraft.
Fleetwood Boy
Member
- Joined
- 11 Oct 2017
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- 243
Whilst I have some sympathy for CS when things go wrong which aren't within their control, I do agree that where necessary they should be pulling out the corporate credit card and buying tickets even if ticket acceptance is refused by other operators. Happened to me once flying with FlyBe between Birmingham and Glasgow back in the day when BA flew on the route too - FlyBe station manager stomped across to the BA desk and bought 10 singles to Glasgow on the next BA flight. Must have cost a wack, but I was impressed that a low-cost carrier would do such a thing, rather than just point us towards their next flight in many hours' time. Of course with the mayhem between London and Scotland yesterday, a journey by an alternative route might not have been much fun either.
Also the train would reverse at Preston so would end up in the wrong order to be split. Not sure how much of a problem that would be on the night and on following days if was a single occurance.
...and transport from the Airport to central London, and a hotel room for the rest of the night?
Seriously, are people's journeys and experience that vital? Are people willing to pay the increased cost of this 'insurance' for their journey such that they expect Caledonian Sleeper to pay for this rather than themselves?
Even personal travel insurance wouldn't do any better than putting you on alternative existing transport to London or Scotland as appropriate.
Very expensive, even if you could charter a plane at the drop of a hat.
What about people who don't like flying? What about people who have lots of luggage, or stuff you aren't allowed on planes?
And what do you upon arrival at Glasgow or Edinburgh in the middle of the night? Sit about the airport?
Far more practical response would be a choice between:
Full refund and don't travel.
Travel on a different date.
Bus
Hotel and travel on the first morning train.
Travel on evening train and hotel at destination.
BRX
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2008
- Messages
- 4,480
I would agree with this.
I'd have thought that you could at least have pre-agreed deals with other TOCs for last trains of the day, which you could activate as soon as you knew the sleeper was cancelled. So, if it becomes apparent at say 5pm that it's going to be cancelled, you can automatically notify passengers that if they want, and are able to, they can travel on the last daytime service, with no time being lost in negotiations or twitter arguments.
Scotrail84
On Moderation
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- 2,977
side effect
Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 242
Could they not pull out a spare train at bounds green depot. I know it's probably a stupid suggestion but it's not like we are in the 16th century. And while we are at it, why cant brand new rolling stock be hybrid instead of only being able to be pulled by electric locos.
The Mk5 are capable of being hauled by diesel or electric locos, provided they have Delner couplings and are electrically compatable.
side effect
Member
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Also why cant my son reply he dosent have the quote/reply option.
As always
As always
Laughable.
Also kind of sticks two fingers up at people who choose the Sleeper for environmental reasons...
Yep, pretty ridiculous, though I believe First used to offer overnight accommodation on parked sleeper coaches at the main stations & a single to Heathrow the next morning if people were in a rush. That might be an option from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Inverness & maybe Dundee, but there’s no way aircraft are being chartered.Laughable.
One thought- if CS were to buy accommodation & an airline ticket for a passenger & let’s say they were delivered to Heathrow or London City by 0700, is there any refund due on the rail ticket? You’re in London at the scheduled time after all and had a bed for most of the night. That might be cheaper than refunding some of the top price fares & arranging ticket acceptance the next day
Hybrid is not needed 99% of the time - you are wasting effort maintaining engines that are rarely used, using additional natural resources and wasting energy lugging the unused engines around.
Indeed
I know that the food isn't included in the price (why not?), but the dining & bar are part of the package they're selling.
Can't provide those on a coach, so it's nowhere near good enough as a replacement.
side effect
Member
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- 242
Ok thanks for that. I remember back in the 80s following West Ham all over the country on inter city instead of football specials. One night we paid £11 return to Sheffield Wednesday not knowing the last train back was 9ish. Anyway, we took a big crowd up that night and there were 100s of us stranded and the police kept us on the platform until gone midnight and we ended up being forced onto a loco hauled.
Point being was that already planned or did they just pull out a spare train. We got back 5am.
Point being was that already planned or did they just pull out a spare train. We got back 5am.
There isn't capacity to provide food in the service vehicle for everyone and some people will have eaten before travelling.
On the Lowland sleeper departure is too late for most people to want to eat anyway.
Not sure you have to offer food - the primary reason to travel is to get from one place to another.
Nobody would be forced to fly. They could take the overnight bus or the next day's train if that was their preference.
The issue is that a lot of their customers won't be able to change the travel date, & won't be able to get to Euston much earlier.
The train is usually available from 22:30, so a lot of people will have other plans up to that sort of time.
So really the only suitable choice is the hotel & travel in the morning.
PG
Established Member
National Express managed to do it back in the 80's on their Rapide services and I'd bet some high end football team coaches these days are capable of it too.
All depends how much CS are prepared to pay...
I would agree though that a coach is not a good enough replacement for a train!