Caledonian Sleeper

[Scotrail84]

Since the Mk5s were introduced, it was 5 coaches, however for the past 1-2 weeks, the Aberdeen portion has been 4 coaches, so you're wrong in that respect. I've seen it and travelled on it. Currently, it's 4

Aye ok I'm wrong...

Tonights 1B16
15003 - A
15109 - Lounge
15207 - B
15323 - C
15321 - D
Thats 5

Tonights 1A25
15004 - A
15101 - Lounge
15201 - B
15308 - C
15307 - D
Thats 5
I suspect you seen/travelled on it when a vehicle had been removed from rake for repairs. Temporarily reduced to 4 for around a week but that same set also worked the Lowlander so the Aberdeen would have been short formed for one trip, two at the most.

 

[Clansman]

Aye ok I'm wrong...

Tonights 1B16
15003 - A
15109 - Lounge
15207 - B
15323 - C
15321 - D

Tonights 1A25
15004 - A
15101 - Lounge
15201 - B
15308 - C
15307 - D

I suspect you seen/travelled on it when a vehicle had been removed from rake for repairs. Temporarily reduced to 4 for around a week but that same set also worked the Lowlander so the Aberdeen would have been short formed for one trip, two at the most.

Aye, I'll concede that the 4 car sets I have seen and been on weren't planned. If they were all missing a coach down to repairs, then fair enough, I wasn't aware that this was the reasoning. However given the patronage of the Aberdeen portion, it is hardly surprising that anyone would assume this would have been a regular rake. After all, it was with Mk3 operation in the latter months, and even then they didn't sell oot.

 

[Scotrail84]

Aye, I'll concede that the 4 car sets I have seen and been on weren't planned. If they were all missing a coach down to repairs, then fair enough, I wasn't aware that this was the reasoning. However given the patronage of the Aberdeen portion, it is hardly surprising that anyone would assume this would have been a regular rake. After all, it was with Mk3 operation in the latter months, and even then they didn't sell oot.

Why make a claim that the train has been reduced to 4 when you appear to know fine well that it has not?

You also say ScotRail guards stopped working the trains and the soul disappeared? Around 60% of the current guards are ex ScotRail, many tuped over and many have 20-30+ years railway service.

Just posting rubbish now. Lay off the drink mate.

 

[Clansman]

Why make a claim that the train has been reduced to 4 when you appear to know fine well that it has not?

You also say ScotRail guards stopped working the trains and the soul disappeared? Around 60% of the current guards are ex ScotRail, many tuped over and many have 20-30+ years railway service.

Just posting rubbish now. Lay off the drink mate.

I was making the claim based on regular sightings and experience. That doesn't mean I knew it was meant to be five coaches. No chance you thought I knew that before hand surely, given I admited I hadn't in my previous post? It couldn't have been clearer - I set out my justiciatons for assuming this after all!

My claim about ScotRail guards working it and 'soul' merely represents the point I believe the service truly delved into the new market that the franchise sets out to target, or at least has emphasised more than any market it served before. Apart from the Mk5 introduction, the change of staff was in my view the last link to the old sleeper, and from my experience and many others I know, it hasn't been the same since. The fact that @MrEd shares part of this view shows it isn't exactly unique to myself.

If you think what I'm saying is rubbish, then good for you, that's your opinion.

As for the drink, I'll need one after this convo buddy!

 

[Crepello]

Timely to reflect on what has been accomplished: The Mark 5s are in service, while their predecessors begin their overdue retirements. New staff have been hired, trained and are gaining experience. (Effectiveness in a customer service role does not require prior railway experience - indeed, a prudent recruiter might look favorably at candidates with a solid background in hospitality.) Over 80% of CS services continue to arrive on time. Despite some tiresome naysaying on their social media pages, Serco are marketing the service elegantly and pricing to optimize yields, while competing with air, road and alternative rail options.

Good to hear observations that loadings are "busier than ever before" - if that's the case then with all respect, talk of alienation and death knells becomes tricky to substantiate. And the notion that customers are being driven away by the interior appearance of the new stock seems, quite frankly, absurd.

What would be interesting, given Serco's strategy of building their leisure market, would be to determine if there's sufficient demand to justify resuming overnight service on Saturdays. Who knows - given good execution and performance, this could herald a renaissance in the overnight rail market. Dare to dream!

 

[35B]

Just curious about why the emphasis is being put on patronage and bargain berths, when at the same time it’s being commented that the economics are poor?

Even allowing for the logic of marginal pricing, there must come a point when fares are too low, and just not worth selling.

 

[MrEd]

Timely to reflect on what has been accomplished: The Mark 5s are in service, while their predecessors begin their overdue retirements. New staff have been hired, trained and are gaining experience. (Effectiveness in a customer service role does not require prior railway experience - indeed, a prudent recruiter might look favorably at candidates with a solid background in hospitality.) Over 80% of CS services continue to arrive on time. Despite some tiresome naysaying on their social media pages, Serco are marketing the service elegantly and pricing to optimize yields, while competing with air, road and alternative rail options.

Good to hear observations that loadings are "busier than ever before" - if that's the case then with all respect, talk of alienation and death knells becomes tricky to substantiate. And the notion that customers are being driven away by the interior appearance of the new stock seems, quite frankly, absurd.

What would be interesting, given Serco's strategy of building their leisure market, would be to determine if there's sufficient demand to justify resuming overnight service on Saturdays. Who knows - given good execution and performance, this could herald a renaissance in the overnight rail market. Dare to dream!

I’m very happy to be proven wrong. Maybe things are actually going well, and I just can’t see the wood for the trees for whatever reason. In fact, I’d love to be proven wrong, as I for one would really like the sleeper to succeed going forward! It’s been a part of my life in many ways. What I will say is that my own observations/experiences based on my last trip and conversations with select staff members whom I know well were in no way scientific or rigorous, and probably not representative. I’m not on the sleeper all the time, and there are some portions that I never travel on, e.g. Aberdeen and Lowlander. Maybe I just travelled on an off night when both staff and passengers happened to be grumpy due to late running and/or other issues? I do have an inkling that there are some issues with stock and staff which do still need solved, but maybe I’m pessimistic. At the end of the day, if a year from now we can say that the business model is working and viable going forward, that’s probably all that matters. I have my doubts about just how many well-heeled leisure travellers can be persuaded to travel to Aberdeen (or Fort William or anywhere to a certain extent) on a wet Tuesday in March, but again, I could be wrong. I know that I am sceptical of the business model, and perhaps my scepticism is groundless.

What I will be interested to see is how loadings on the Highlander turn out once the initial hype over the Mk5s is over. There’s probably a lot of interest in the service at the moment because of the new stock, but can CS maintain that level of interest (with the fares they’re charging) once the novelty has worn off? If they can, then they’re obviously doing something right.

As for a Saturday night service- I think there are many operational reasons why this is unlikely to happen any time soon, nice though it may be. I swear that BR stopped Saturday night sleeper services because they were poorly loaded and a hassle to operate due to engineering works etc. It’s also not a franchise commitment, and it could never be profitable, so would require more subsidy for very little gain (and what about stock maintenance, crew diagrams etc). also think CS need to concentrate on running their existing services reliably rather than introducing new ones.

 

[47271]

Dear me, some people are a bit insomniac, were you all having a bad night on the sleeper?!

I agree with a lot of the sentiment posted overnight, but less so the reality. I don't think that Serco's operation of the sleeper can be declared a failure until they've got through 2020 and there's clear evidence of poor loadings as a result of high prices.

The bad stuff I hear from regulars at the moment is unreliability leading to delay repay, onboard faults especially relating to plumbing and water, poor and noisy ride, and a fear of future price increases. Not prices paid now, not the observation of travelling on empty trains, and not bad service from crew, whether they're new to the train or not.

I don't agree that the new lounges, sorry Club Cars, are soulless. They may be impractical in use and have multiple faults, but the environment is a hundred times better than that provided by the rickety mk2s. Everything else about the new stock is a step up on the old trains, if only it was made to work properly and we didn't have that infernal rattling and jiggling from the bogies.

So we've got a new fleet that should be more or less fit for purpose at some point during 2020. The question is whether or not the operator's pricing of it will prove to be fit for purpose as 2020 rolls by. I'm still no more than 50% confident on that.

 

[cf111]

What are the best options for dinner and breakfast on the Highlander these days? I normally have the haggis but the chicken dish sounds quite nice.

I used to take the smoked salmon and scrambled eggs for breakfast because the "full breakfast" used to be genuinely vile. Has it improved?

 

[Chrism20]

What are the best options for dinner and breakfast on the Highlander these days? I normally have the haggis but the chicken dish sounds quite nice.

I used to take the smoked salmon and scrambled eggs for breakfast because the "full breakfast" used to be genuinely vile. Has it improved?

The chicken is rather nice in my opinion. The full breakfast in the lounge is also notably better than it was a year ago.

picture of the chicken attached.

 

[_toommm_]

Just a quick question guys:

When a passenger takes the Fort William train from Euston/Watford/Crewe/Preston, to somewhere north of Edinburgh (in the seated coach),passengers have to alight at Edinburgh while the coaches are shunted round, right?

 

[alistairlees]

Just a quick question guys:

When a passenger takes the Fort William train from Euston/Watford/Crewe/Preston, to somewhere north of Edinburgh (in the seated coach),passengers have to alight at Edinburgh while the coaches are shunted round, right?

You have to alight in order to change coach; the seated coach you leave Euston on is in fact going to Aberdeen.

 

[Scotrail84]

The chicken is rather nice in my opinion. The full breakfast in the lounge is also notably better than it was a year ago. View attachment 70710

picture of the chicken attached.

To my knowledge that dish is no longer on the menu.

 

[Chrism20]

To my knowledge that dish is no longer on the menu.

Must have been very recent as that picture was taken in the last fortnight.

 

[47271]

What are the best options for dinner and breakfast on the Highlander these days? I normally have the haggis but the chicken dish sounds quite nice.

I used to take the smoked salmon and scrambled eggs for breakfast because the "full breakfast" used to be genuinely vile. Has it improved?

The lamb shank - for sure on the current menu, the report is from within the week - is very good at the moment I believe, but brace yourself for £14 or so.

Bacon roll is the safest breakfast option says quite a few people.

 

[alangla]

Menus are here- https://www.sleeper.scot/food-and-drink/ pan seared chicken seems to be on it

 

[Bletchleyite]

Menus are here- https://www.sleeper.scot/food-and-drink/ pan seared chicken seems to be on it

Is it me, or does it appear that they don't serve whisky to the seated coach? Ridiculous. I can't see any reason why the menu shouldn't be the same for all classes.

As for "pan seared" - maybe it was at some point - but it was microwaved on board I believe

 

[_toommm_]

You have to alight in order to change coach; the seated coach you leave Euston on is in fact going to Aberdeen.

Thought so - thank you! Someone on another thread was adamant you didn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thought so - thank you! Someone on another thread was adamant you didn't.

I wondered if that person was suggesting that you didn't have to stand on the platform for half an hour while they faff about. On the old service you could stay on board the Aberdeen coach until the shunt was complete, though when I've done it I've chosen a wander around watching for half an hour as I can't sleep in a seat anyway. I recall reading somewhere on here that that now isn't a choice and you have to get off as soon as it arrives else you're going to Aberdeen.

 

[JonathanH]

I recall reading somewhere on here that that now isn't a choice and you have to get off as soon as it arrives else you're going to Aberdeen.

Last time I went, I was woken on the approach to Edinburgh and indicated that I should get off on arrival. In practice, they left the doors locked for another 30 minutes and then I still had to wait on the platform for part of the shunt.

I am going again on Monday night so will see if the practice has changed. In theory, there is no need for the staff to ask you to get off the Aberdeen portion until about 40 minutes after the whole train has arrived in Edinburgh (assuming it is running to time).

 

[MrEd]

Is it me, or does it appear that they don't serve whisky to the seated coach? Ridiculous. I can't see any reason why the menu shouldn't be the same for all classes.

As for "pan seared" - maybe it was at some point - but it was microwaved on board I believe

The chicken dish is very decent to be fair; I believe that in the Mk5 lounges they can oven-cook some of the dishes; certainly the quality of some of the meals has (I think) improved from the Mk2 days.

I think that the menus have to be different because some items (i.e. things that spill easily) may not be suitable for take-away to the seated coach/moving through narrow corridors for room service, but I’m not sure why whisky can’t be sold to the seated coach. If you asked for it at the counter I don’t see what the problem would be?

 

[Scotrail84]

Menus are here- https://www.sleeper.scot/food-and-drink/ pan seared chicken seems to be on it

Yes, thats not what is pictured in the above post though.

 

[trebor79]

Bacon roll is the safest breakfast option says quite a few people.

I had eggs royale when I travelled and it was top notch. Perfectly poached eggs, generous amount of smoked salmon and very good hollandaise. Couldn't fault it.

 

[Scotrail84]

Is it me, or does it appear that they don't serve whisky to the seated coach? Ridiculous. I can't see any reason why the menu shouldn't be the same for all classes.

As for "pan seared" - maybe it was at some point - but it was microwaved on board I believe

Not true. Ovens are used and food is held in holding ovens once cooked and can be served as it is ordered.

 

[Scotrail84]

Last time I went, I was woken on the approach to Edinburgh and indicated that I should get off on arrival. In practice, they left the doors locked for another 30 minutes and then I still had to wait on the platform for part of the shunt.

I am going again on Monday night so will see if the practice has changed. In theory, there is no need for the staff to ask you to get off the Aberdeen portion until about 40 minutes after the whole train has arrived in Edinburgh (assuming it is running to time).

The inverness and Aberdeen services depart as and when they are complete so you will probably be required to alight as soon as practicably possible.

 

[Chrism20]

The menu on my journeys over the last two weeks was different to the one online. The chicken is served with red cabbage and stovies IIRC

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not true. Ovens are used and food is held in holding ovens once cooked and can be served as it is ordered.

Cheers. That's an improvement over the Mk3s, then. I find airline oven-warmed food to be better than train microwave food - I guess microwaves can't be used on planes because of the risk of interference with equipment?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that the menus have to be different because some items (i.e. things that spill easily) may not be suitable for take-away to the seated coach/moving through narrow corridors for room service, but I’m not sure why whisky can’t be sold to the seated coach. If you asked for it at the counter I don’t see what the problem would be?

There isn't a counter any more, it's a trolley I believe.

I have no idea why not, it just doesn't feature on the seated coach menu.

 

[paul1609]

I wondered if that person was suggesting that you didn't have to stand on the platform for half an hour while they faff about. On the old service you could stay on board the Aberdeen coach until the shunt was complete, though when I've done it I've chosen a wander around watching for half an hour as I can't sleep in a seat anyway. I recall reading somewhere on here that that now isn't a choice and you have to get off as soon as it arrives else you're going to Aberdeen.

Out of interest how does the passenger count for the West Highland section compare to the Aberdeen these days? I have a sneaky feeling that during the summer anyway the seated coach should really go to Fort William.

 

[Bald Rick]

The lamb shank - for sure on the current menu, the report is from within the week - is very good at the moment I believe, but brace yourself for £14 or so.

£14 for a lamb shank is cheaper than you’ll pay in most restaurants.