W H Smith and John Menzies stores

[A60K]

Anyone over the age of around 30 will remember that, before W H Smith became the ubiquitous newsagent on the network, John Menzies were a competitor and ran a significant number of stores at stations.

I think whether a station was a WHS or JM branch was largely due to historical arrangements - as I remember it, John Menzies was the main (or sole) operator of stores on former LNWR stations, GWR stations and in Scotland. Can anyone confirm this was the case?

 

[CarterUSM]

Not so sure about the specific stations, but I had never even heard of WH Smith when I was younger. In scotland it seemed to be all john menzies. Pronounced mingiss! Sold all their newsagents in the late nineties to WH Smith and now concentrates on distribution and aviation services.

 

[merlodlliw]

I can assist you from my experience of North Wales stations,including
Chester & Crewe.

In the 50s these news stalls were WYMANS, then bought out by Menzies,
..............................................
WHS had shops in all Major towns serviced by Wholesale depts at Chester

Colwyn Bay & Bangor, but no station outlets then.

 

[jopsuk]

John Menzies was dominant in Scotland, as it was* a Scottish business- wheras WH Smith was founded at Euston.


*actually still is. The company still exists, they just don't have retail operations.

 

[Greenback]

From my rapdily fading memory of the 1970's and 1980's, I seem to remember that the bookstall at Swansea was Menzies, and the shop at Paddington was WH Smith.

 

[Aictos]

I remember going into the John Menzies store in the Queensgate Shopping Centre before it closed and got converted in yet another clothes store.

Now there's no similar store in the centre after the paper shop by Waitrose did a moonlight escape back in 2005, 2006!

 

[merlodlliw]

From my rapdily fading memory of the 1970's and 1980's, I seem to remember that the bookstall at Swansea was Menzies, and the shop at Paddington was WH Smith.

I am sure all the London Termini were WHS. Now heres a bit of history.

I worked in the wholesale news trade, a newspaper sorting train left Paddington
around midnight, it was run by WHS, men sorted the various newspapers from London on this train which ran to Swansea. Dropping off newsagents bulk supplies at various stations on the way, it was unique to have each newsagents supply's ready packed for delivery from this train. No passengers were carried.
I am not aware of a similar news sorting train anywhere else in the UK.

 

[Greenback]

I knew about the train to Swansea, but I didn't realise it was the only one! Thanks for that, very interesting!

 

[142094]

Think Menzies still does some of the distribution of the papers, see the van every so often up here. Used to be a shop in the MetroCentre before it closed and turned into an ice cream parlour.

 

[A60K]

I am sure all the London Termini were WHS.

Certainly not in the 1980s - Kings Cross was WHS, as was Liverpool Street and the Southern Region terminals, but I'm 99% certain that one of the London Terminals was JM.

 

[WillPS]

Think Menzies still does some of the distribution of the papers, see the van every so often up here. Used to be a shop in the MetroCentre before it closed and turned into an ice cream parlour.

Menzies and SmithsNews (recently spun off from WHSmiths) still compete for newspaper distribution. Most Sainsbury's stores use Menzies but some still have arrangements with Smiths, particularly the stores purchased from Jacksons in the early-00s.

 

[EM2]

Certainly not in the 1980s - Kings Cross was WHS, as was Liverpool Street and the Southern Region terminals, but I'm 99% certain that one of the London Terminals was JM.

It was, but for the life of me I can't remember which...Marylebone?

 

[merlodlliw]

Menzies and SmithsNews (recently spun off from WHSmiths) still compete for newspaper distribution. Most Sainsbury's stores use Menzies but some still have arrangements with Smiths, particularly the stores purchased from Jacksons in the early-00s.

Yes depends where you live, Menzies have been buying up a lot of independent
wholesalers down here, long gone are the days of Surridge Dawson,who supplied all of Mid Wales from Shrewsbury, its new owners Menzies still do.

I recall Shrewsbury Station at 2.00a.m. early on Sunday when tons of newspapers were sorted on the platforms for distribution to Mid Wales
alas by road transport.

 

[313103]

It was, but for the life of me I can't remember which...Marylebone?

Marylebone was Smiths and i am sure that during the 80s Euston was a Menzies station.

 

[route:oxford]

I'm sure it was a John Menzies at Paddington station - when it was still in a "portacabin" style building on the main concourse.

Not sure about now, but until fairly recently it was still possible to make out the "John Menzie & Co Ltd" on the former newstand on Platform 3 at Stirling Station - I suspect it may well be listed.

There were a few WH Smith outlets in Scotland until the mid 80s. In Argyle Street (Glasgow), John Menzies was on one side of the street and WH Smith on the other. WH Smith closed down in the 80s when they withdrew from Scotland, a few years later John Menzies sold their existing site to Tesco and moved across the road to the former WH Smith unit. This unit was subsequently rebranded as WH Smith when John Menzies sold off their retail outlets.

Just found an image with a John Menzies store at Paddington, albeit not the main one.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/focalplane/79015524/

 

[ungreat]

I remember going into the John Menzies store in the Queensgate Shopping Centre before it closed and got converted in yet another clothes store.

Now there's no similar store in the centre after the paper shop by Waitrose did a moonlight escape back in 2005, 2006!

Bloody hell!! the way you go on you'd be misled into thinking you had spent a long time on the railways lol

 

[wellhouse]

I am sure all the London Termini were WHS. Now heres a bit of history.

I worked in the wholesale news trade, a newspaper sorting train left Paddington
around midnight, it was run by WHS, men sorted the various newspapers from London on this train which ran to Swansea. Dropping off newsagents bulk supplies at various stations on the way, it was unique to have each newsagents supply's ready packed for delivery from this train. No passengers were carried.
I am not aware of a similar news sorting train anywhere else in the UK.

The Paddington Newspaper train was not unique.

I spent a summer (1974?) working for John Menzies Wholesale in Leeds. We used to get a train with London papers at around 2.30am, but quite a few nationals also had presses in Manchester. We had a few early Manchester papers for those newsagents that opened very early, and these and the Londons were taken to our warehouse for sorting.

The main consignment of Manchester papers came in around 4.30 am having been sorted for delivery on board. The packers travelled across to Manchester around 11.00pm the previous evening, and the vehicles, I seem to recall, were dedicated GUVs which were signwritten 'Newspapers'. They had trestle tables to work on, but no specialist internal fittings comparable to a TPO. There was one vehicle each for John Menzies and W H Smith, and both London and Manchester trains also carried mail. They unloaded on what was then Platform 5 at Leeds City (now 8c), and we used to back the vans up to the platform edge to load directly. A novice train driver would come in for some stick when the doors didn't line up precisely where the vans were waiting.

For some reason the Sunday night/Monday morning London train always came in reverse formation, with the newspaper vans at the rear (now Platform 8a)rather than the front. It could be interesting with the WH Smith, John Menzies and Royal Mail vans all jockeying for position, and I was told that tempers could fray in December when the Christmas mail made things even busier.

BTP always magically appeared to greet the paper trains before melting away again with their complimentary copies!

 

[merlodlliw]

The Paddington Newspaper train was not unique.

I spent a summer (1974?) working for John Menzies Wholesale in Leeds. We used to get a train with London papers at around 2.30am, but quite a few nationals also had presses in Manchester. We had a few early Manchester papers for those newsagents that opened very early, and these and the Londons were taken to our warehouse for sorting.

The main consignment of Manchester papers came in around 4.30 am having been sorted for delivery on board. The packers travelled across to Manchester around 11.00pm the previous evening, and the vehicles, I seem to recall, were dedicated GUVs which were signwritten 'Newspapers'. They had trestle tables to work on, but no specialist internal fittings comparable to a TPO. There was one vehicle each for John Menzies and W H Smith, and both London and Manchester trains also carried mail. They unloaded on what was then Platform 5 at Leeds City (now 8c), and we used to back the vans up to the platform edge to load directly. A novice train driver would come in for some stick when the doors didn't line up precisely where the vans were waiting.

For some reason the Sunday night/Monday morning London train always came in reverse formation, with the newspaper vans at the rear (now Platform 8a)rather than the front. It could be interesting with the WH Smith, John Menzies and Royal Mail vans all jockeying for position, and I was told that tempers could fray in December when the Christmas mail made things even busier.

BTP always magically appeared to greet the paper trains before melting away again with their complimentary copies!

Yes I agree there were several mixed news/mail trains, what I ment was the Paddington/.Swansea was news only.

It was interesting on the Sunday before Xmas, the 0208 ex Man Vic always
had old passenger coaches due to a shortage of goods vans,this train hooked
up a london coach at Chester, then Rhyl,Colwyn,Junction. It was a pig to unload.

 

[Oswyntail]

... WH Smith was founded at Euston.

Interesting fact for those interested. The WH Smith who founded the store was the "Ruler of the Queens Navy" who was lampooned in Gilbert & Sullivans HMS Pinafore.
There, I thought you'd like that.

From my rapdily fading memory of the 1970's and 1980's, I seem to remember that the bookstall at Swansea was Menzies, and the shop at Paddington was WH Smith.

Coincidentally, last night I was looking at a mag from 1987 that clearly showed the bookstall on platform 1 (left hand one as you look Cardiff-wards) at Paddington was Menzies

 

[Greenback]

Interesting fact for those interested. The WH Smith who founded the store was the "Ruler of the Queens Navy" who was lampooned in Gilbert & Sullivans HMS Pinafore.
There, I thought you'd like that.

Coincidentally, last night I was looking at a mag from 1987 that clearly showed the bookstall on platform 1 (left hand one as you look Cardiff-wards) at Paddington was Menzies

What about the portacabin type one on the main concourse? I thought I could remember it being a Smiths in 1986, but now I'm not so sure - although Mrs G also thinks it was Smiths! (That's why i;ve changed my mind, she's normally wrong!)

 

[A60K]

I don't think WHS and JM competed at the same stations - so as one smaller unit at Paddington was JM, I think the main one was as well.

 

[merlodlliw]

On my monthly visits to the smoke, about ten years ago I am sure WHS had an outlet near the entrances at Euston and Menzies had an outlet on the middle of the platforms side.

Birmingham Snow hill had Wymans outlets, picture in a rail book of the outside of the station. Wymans taken over by Menzies