Persecution of trainspotters

[Jack Ellis]

We have all experienced it. Whether we have been told by staff that spotting is somehow illegal, or having our equipment confiscated by bumbling security guards. It seems staff at some railway stations have a vendetta against us... but is that true, or are they just misinformed? Do they think that what they are doing is justifiable? Well one things for sure. Most of the people who they annoy are definately NOT terrorists. So what is it about us? Years ago, every young person was interested in railways. What happened to the british culture? x

 

[GB]

The word "terrorist" or "suspicious" is used too often in this country and is purely used as an easy excuse or "get out" by what ever authority maybe in charge to deny law abiding citizens there right or freedoms.

I do not think in the slightest the majority of rail staff have a "vendetta" against enthusiasts but its mainly the negative cases that get highlighted.

 

[yorkie]

I don't really know. 'Spotters' I guess, by their nature, being in a place that most people would not be (the far end of a platform) and for longer than normal, may seem to be 'different' but you would have thought that rail staff/contractors/BTP would know that spotters exist and that they do this and that it's harmless. Also the activity of standing on a platform end for several hours noting numbers is not something that terrorists are likely to do, and there is no link whatsoever to anyone with an IQ above that of an amoeba.

'Photters' also experience this problem, although it's not a problem specific to railway photography but to photographers in general.

'Bashers' (People who travel on trains simply for the travel experience, often to go for a particular type of traction) are probably the least likely category of enthusiasts to experience being accused of being a terrorist, which is perhaps ironic given that they do something that terrorists may do: travel for no particular reason!

People may think 'spotting' is unusual, but everyone has heard of spotters and know what they do, so there really is no excuse to suspect a spotter of being a terrorist.

 

[142094]

You don't often hear (or I don't anyway) of plane spotters being harrassed in the same way as train spotters (except for those two in India who had the radio scanners and other items). Is this due to the fact that:

1) Airports tend to be better protected than railway stations?

2) There are more railway stations than airports?

3) There are more train spotters than plane spotters?

 

[theblackwatch]

You don't often hear (or I don't anyway) of plane spotters being harrassed in the same way as train spotters (except for those two in India who had the radio scanners and other items). Is this due to the fact that:

1) Airports tend to be better protected than railway stations?

2) There are more railway stations than airports?

3) There are more train spotters than plane spotters?

Not forgetting the ones in Greece who were held in prison for several months.

 

[SteamontheMet]

You don't often hear (or I don't anyway) of plane spotters being harrassed in the same way as train spotters (except for those two in India who had the radio scanners and other items). Is this due to the fact that:

1) Airports tend to be better protected than railway stations?

2) There are more railway stations than airports?

3) There are more train spotters than plane spotters?

You dont hear about them but they just get as much attention and moving on as Train Spotters,
I know because I am both.

 

[rail-britain]

I made a move many years ago, as a result of car ownership, from taking observations and photographs at stations to other locations

Since then I have never had any problems

Last year was one of the few occasions where I travelled by train again
However I didn't have any problems, but then again on most occasions I was waiting with most passengers on a platform or where I expected the First Class to be

When I take photographs at the rail side in the country I make sure my flash is off
I've had the BTP appear a few times, but they usually ask more general questions rather than some of the horror stories I have heard mentioned, perhaps its more what you look like and what you are doing!
Equally, I think standing beside a £50K car taking photographs of the railway is enough to ward off the BTP...

 

[37401]

Not forgetting the ones in Greece who were held in prison for several months.

Beat me to it

Some spotters do need to be hassled however, ive seen some of the older ones blocking stairs, smoking on stations, and one time at tamworth one crossed the lines on the HL and using flash, ill admit ive used flash but only when noone is in the cab and when its so dark I can only get crap shots

 

[ChrisCooper]

Then again, most cases we hear of where plane spotters are arrested involve military planes and airbases, not civilian. Since the railways have absolutly no military significance at all then it's an entirely different issue. In a war these days I doubt railways would even be considered a significant target. I doubt the railways are even a significant terrorist target, beyond being places where large numbers of people gather.

Yes there are bad spotters, but there are bad in every walk of life, there are even bad rail staff (from the point of view of having a disregard for rules, however small).

 

[rail-britain]

Since the railways have absolutly no military significance at all then it's an entirely different issue. In a war these days I doubt railways would even be considered a significant target. I doubt the railways are even a significant terrorist target, beyond being places where large numbers of people gather

Not likely to happen, but if there was a war against Britain the railways make a significant target
During a war the first target are strategic industrial requirements
Here in Britain (and would be the same across most other developed countries) that would be the movements of raw supplies such as oil, petroleum, and coal
Even with basic planning it is quite obvious which freight depots would need to be attacjed so as to impact those industries
However, it is not just rail it would be road and air as well

 

[142094]

Not fogetting nuclear trains from the power stations. But still a person taking a photo of a train isn't likely to be that great of a threat.

 

[yorkie]

Some spotters do need to be hossed however,

Hmm, I wonder what you mean! I've not heard this term. Apparently there are several possible meanings. You are either saying they should be raped, or should do something quickly, or do something with force. I'll assume you don't mean the first option, but neither of the other two make sense. Unless there's a Brummie use of the term which I can't find any references to, even looking at a list of Brummie slang words I can't find "hossed"!

 

[Pumbaa]

I think it may have something to do with the attitude of spotters at particular areas. Two of my favourite haunts, Warrington and Piccadilly, both have relaxed and casual staff, very accommodating of enthusiasts, whether they're spotters, photters etc. In contrast, the few times I've been to Brum for example, there's been a few jumped up individuals causing trouble on the platforms, screaming rail related terms at each other across platforms. Quite rightfully, they ended up being given an earful by station staff.

And then yes, south of the Watford Gap I've always found staff more hostile and security conscious than those north. You will get asked questions, but very rarely menacingly. You do have the scare stories, but they're usually exaggerated for emphasis or blown up by the media.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I've nothing against spotters at all, they're extra eyes for us the staff which is helpful, and some can be really helpful shutting doors etc. I'd say at least 97% are not a problem. It's when you get the idiots who insist on standing right on the edge of the platform with their tripods, or going into areas they shouldn't be. I've also had an instance with having a HST in the platform and whilst i'm dispatching a large crowd of spotters have suddenly ran to see something at the front of the HST on another line... seeing that instantly makes me assume something has gone seriously wrong.
I will only trouble you if you're doing something that puts yourself/others/trains in danger.

 

[37401]

Hmm, I wonder what you mean! I've not heard this term. Apparently there are several possible meanings. You are either saying they should be raped, or should do something quickly, or do something with force. I'll assume you don't mean the first option, but neither of the other two make sense. Unless there's a Brummie use of the term which I can't find any references to, even looking at a list of Brummie slang words I can't find "hossed"!

I thaught hossed meant hassled, if not then

 

[Geezertronic]

I thaught hossed meant hassled, if not then

Why use a word if you don't know the meaning of it???

You are either saying they should be raped....

It would actually be quite funny if he had gone around telling people he was getting hossed by that station attendant bloke when infact it meant something of a sexual nature

 

[37401]

It would actually be quite funny if he had gone around telling people he was getting hossed by that station attendant bloke when infact it meant something of a sexual nature

No because I don't do anything to get hassle off staff

 

[Geezertronic]

No because I don't do anything to get hassle off staff

The irony of that comment obviously went straight over your head

 

[37401]

The irony of that comment obviously went straight over your head

forgot to add the wink to my post, I did laugh at the post

 

[Oswyntail]

....when infact it meant something of a sexual nature

Ah the joys of English. Virtually any word in the language has been used at one time or another to have a sexual connotation - and those that have not are fast succumbing. All you have to do is say them with a leer in your voice and within a week they will have become the latest rude words. [I have fond memories of deliberately using all the obscene senses of words when doing Latin translation years ago - students amused, teacher embarrassed - result!]

 

[Bittern]

We have all experienced it.

Wrong. I never have.

 

[AlexS]

While I was at New Street with a mate once he took a picture of the departure board with a load of 'Delayed' indications on with his phone and some muppet with a walkie talkie came up and told him he must delete it and tried to escort him to a manager.

This despite the chap having signed in at the NR reception as requested!

As he went along with it, the bloke very soon lost interest without the confrontation perhaps expected and ****ed off without a further word.

 

[jon0844]

I was told off by someone at St Pancras (low level) when a departure board showed 'Moorgate Midland' (I think) and that being the only stop (again, not the case - next stop was Farringdon and then all stations to Moorgate). She asked why I took a photo and went on about it, until I said that it was because the information was wrong.

She didn't believe it was wrong, but the photo was sent to FCC who then corrected it shortly after.

 

[TGV]

I don't intend to make any enemies with this post, but I've never got into any arguements or trouble and the simple reason is I've never ever been a train spotter. As much as I'm an "enthusiast" and have an interest in railways, I've never felt the compulsion to stand in a station writing down numbers - I just don't see the point. Not that I'd pass judgement on any who do - it's the brilliance of a free world, and I'm disgusted when I read stories of spotters getting berated by "officials" who don't understand their own bloody rules. If someone wants to stand at the end of Doncaster platform with a thermos, a notepad and camera - so what?

Also - isn't it the case that the stations of the UK have had spotters hanging round them for about 100 years or more? It's not like it's anything new.

I like taking the occasional photo or video of trains or railway themed subjects, but I'd say that about 10% of these are at a station - the vast majority are elsewhere. Maybe if people are getting hassle at stations they should try spotting at a busy junction instead? Although I see the appeal in stations as trains are going slow enough to read the numbers.

Funny story for you all though - I was once at Doncaster waiting for a connection (what else is Donny station for!?), and next to me was a group of spotters (including a teenage girl - must be a rare thing), anyway as some local DMU pulled into the platform next to them, a GNER (at the time) 91 went passed on the fast lines not stopping. One commented to the other "did you get that one?", the other said "no, but I think it had a 4 in it". The first bloke then said "OK, I'll put it down as 91104 then"... Now stop me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he cheating? Cheating at train spotting!? You can't just make up the numbers surely! You could sit at home and do that.

Anyway, like I said - not trying to make enemies, just my random thoughts on the subject.

 

[Tom B]

I was once at Doncaster waiting for a connection (what else is Donny station for!?),

Some of us have the unfortunate accolade of living there !

 

[thegrich37423]

Trainspotters are an interesting group of people, almost like a totally independant social class within a social class. They comprise some of the most interesting and most deluded people I have ever met, usually in the same group. I find it very interesting reading these stories but I'm afraid, to me, they have little basis in reality.
The NR guidelines for trainspotters makes use of the sentence that these people are the 'eyes and ears' of security of every station in this country. Reading some of these stories about the difficulties of taking pictures on station platforms makes me wonder who exactly is at fault here. The guidelines for taking pictures and filming on stations is quite explicit, but some of the videos posted on YouTube, with the videor quite clearly over the yellow line in an illogical attempt to get the driver to sound his/her horn, makes me feel quite unsympathetic to these same people who then complain they are being driven off the said station by some 'jobsworth'. The poor 'jobsworth' has a job to do. Keeping these stations safe and ensuring that the general public are able to move about the station in a safe way. If the said videor/fotter is behaving in a way that does not comply with the guidelines or in a way that is deemed unsafe to the general public, then the jobsworth has every right to evict that person from the station. But then, on the other hand, we have the chap from Macclesfield, who claimed, using video evidence, to the local and national news that a Virgin 'jobsworth' turfed him off the station claiming it was 'private property'. But did we know the whole story? In the Virgin workers defense, she was acting in the best interests of the safety of the general public travelling to/from Macclesfield and ensuring that the station runs smoothly and safely. In the trainspotters defense, he was being, well, persecuted. But why was he asked to leave the station? I guess we will never know the whole story.
Sure the blame game falls both ways here, but to start a thread which is overtly melodramatic claiming that the trainspotting fraternity is being 'persecuted' is ridiculous at best. If people here feel so strongly, how about they make an effort to provide us with the whole story as to why he/she was asked to leave a particular station, without the finger of blame pointing so firmly away from themselves.

 

[Greenback]

There is more than one type of enthusiast! This also applies to traveller, photographer and spotter!

For instance, the quiet, single indiividual who sets up a camera near to, but not at, the platform end canniot be compared to a group of exuberant people who are videoing gesturing for the driver to sound the horn. Yet both types have been approached and admonished, if you believe the reports, because 'photography is not permitted for security reasons'. No mention of causing an obstruction, or nuisance to others, which in my view would be a legitimate reason to evict someone.

Yes, some enthusiasts bring trouble on themselves, but likewise, not all staff are innocent either.

 

[Mojo]

The NR guidelines for trainspotters makes use of the sentence that these people are the 'eyes and ears' of security of every station in this country.

There are no guidelines for 'Trainspotters,' they are for railway photographers.

I think you are confused somewhat, as not everyone who is interested in the railways are Trainspotters and I think also you'll find very few people on this forum are Transpotters. Sorry, but your trolling attempt has failed this time.

 

[ChrisCooper]

The big problem with reffering to "trainspotters" is that most of the people who get problems are not "trainspotters" in the traditional sence, they are photographers, and really the same issues apply to photographers in many other situations as well as railways. "Bashers" (those who travel on the trains) are very often victims too, which is worse as they are fare paying passengers and rarely even hanging around on stations longer than ordinary passengers (afterall if you're on a rover you don't want to be wasting time hanging around photographing when you could be travelling). Twice I've had problems I've been just taking a few photos whilst waiting for my train on a regular journey. One even tried the "come with me to see the station manager and he'll tell you you're wrong" which sadly I couldn't do as my train was due in a few mins "just because you know you are wrong!" he said, "no, my train is here and I'm not waiting an hour just to prove a point" I replied as I photographed my train, now coming to a stop. At this point he started going on about calling the police, at which point I said something about them loving people wasting their time, and "goodbye" as I boarded my train. I actually complained to MML (it was at Leicester) over this, and was told he was wrong and apologised. They actually also were interested as he had said "I work here" yet my description of his clothing didn't fit what any station staff would be wearing, and that he had no name badge visable. That said as usual I got the "we'll look into it and get back to you" but heard nothing.

 

[Bittern]

Just curious, what were British Rail(ways) like with trainspotters?