Elephant & Castle Platform lengths

[brad465]

I've not been to this station very often before, but my impression is they are 8 cars long here, as I'm sure 8 car Networkers can call here on the peak Beckenham Junction workings to/from Blackfriars. However when I've got the 0853 Maidstone East-BFR (to Borough Green) before automated announcements suggest you need to be in the front 7 coaches for this station, for what is an 8 car 377 set.

Can anyone provide clarity on this please?

 

[charlesn132]

One of the platforms there is about 7 cars long I think, with part of the platform being on a bridge and very narrow. 700s use selective door operation on that platform too with the rear coach locked out.

The 377s tend to make the "short platform" announcements at stations which have short platforms in my experience, even if the particular platform being called at is long enough to fit the whole train.

 

[30907]

The up slow platform (no.1) is 7 cars long, and IIRC still has big red DO NOT ALIGHT HERE signs on the bridge parapet at the country end. Said bridge makes lengthening the platform very difficult.

 

[jopsuk]

According to this only platform 4 reaches 160m

 

[dewsnapsliding]

The up slow platform (no.1) is 7 cars long, and IIRC still has big red DO NOT ALIGHT HERE signs on the bridge parapet at the country end. Said bridge makes lengthening the platform very difficult.

This used to be a complete pita for me when I was traveling between East Croydon and E&C on the old (Pre-London Bridge) Thameslink timetable in the evenings between 17-18.00 as this was the time they were running 12 car trains back into the core, and they didn’t stop (on Platform 1) at all, running direct to Blackfriars.

They used to stop there for the rest of the day (peak morning maybe excepted).

 

[brad465]

According to this only platform 4 reaches 160m

Considering a typical 8 car 465 set is 160m or slightly longer, if that table is correct either I was seeing things about those formations using the station, or they manage in platforms 2 and 3 with a short bit at each end off the ends of the platforms (if that's even allowed). I'm not aware of any other rolling stock without SDO using this station.

 

[Surreytraveller]

A train with SDO won't know what platform a train is going to call at, so will assume that it is going to call at the shortest platform and make those automated announcements appropriately

 

[brad465]

A bit of digging on RTT reveals all the Beckenham Jct-BFR morning peak trains use Platform 1, so if an 8 car Networker doesn't fit these trains must be 6 cars. Another service of interest is the 0737 Sole Street-BFR uses P1 here, formed of an 8 car 377. However it's been revealed here that this will be an 8 car Networker from December, as part of the stock reshuffle due to the 466 derogation next year, but a quick search to a date after the timetable change on RTT sees no platform alteration as yet.

 

[ComUtoR]

8 Car Networkers fit all platforms. The ones coming up from Beckenham Junction are often 8s

 

[Wychwood93]

8 Car Networkers fit all platforms. The ones coming up from Beckenham Junction are often 8s

#4 applies with regard to actual platform length - it may well be the case that the 's' boards on platform 1 technically allow 8? The Sectional Appendix shows only 7 for platform 1 and 8-car for the others.

 

[ComUtoR]

8 Car Networkers still get put on Platform 1. They have been doing it for years. The DOO monitors on Platform 1 are even marked with an [8] I didn't think it was a 'S' Car mark and there is still a [4] there. Not been on there for a couple of weeks but will be up there this week at some point. I am not aware of any specific restriction of putting 8 coaches on Platform 1.

You can also carry out an SDO release on a Networker but again, there is no standing instruction to do so and the SDO isn't used.

 

[Wychwood93]

8 Car Networkers still get put on Platform 1. They have been doing it for years. The DOO monitors on Platform 1 are even marked with an [8] I didn't think it was a 'S' Car mark and there is still a [4] there. Not been on there for a couple of weeks but will be up there this week at some point. I am not aware of any specific restriction of putting 8 coaches on Platform 1.

You can also carry out an SDO release on a Networker but again, there is no standing instruction to do so and the SDO isn't used.

Not disputing your local knowledge by the way. If you drift by there could you have a look where any 4/8/s boards are? Living in a village near Christchurch it is not exactly a local station for me! I am interested and have been through there at some time!

 

[ComUtoR]

If you drift by there could you have a look where any 4/8/s boards are?

I will know by Thursday as I need to pop by. I think the 4 car monitors are by the stairs. I'll let you know.

 

[brad465]

You can also carry out an SDO release on a Networker but again, there is no standing instruction to do so and the SDO isn't used.

If I've read this correctly that's news to me, considering all the talk about logistical issues of Networkers not being able to operate this way (although presumably the fact such services will have to avoid a 466 being completely locked out where 2 coaches miss the platform is a reason why SDO isn't used).

 

[ComUtoR]

If I've read this correctly that's news to me,

News that they have it or news that they don't use it ?

 

[westcoaster]

P1 was always an 8 car 319 platform, the rear coach stopped on the wooden platform across the road bridge (grandfather rights), it has lots of red signs saying move down the train to alight here. Platform is only about a metre wide.

Sdo 7 only came about with the introduction of 377's.

 

[hwl]

If I've read this correctly that's news to me, considering all the talk about logistical issues of Networkers not being able to operate this way (although presumably the fact such services will have to avoid a 466 being completely locked out where 2 coaches miss the platform is a reason why SDO isn't used).

The Networker SDO is very primitive (just the last car locked out???) and manual with no automated safety features or announcements unlike newer systems.

 

[hwl]

The typical platform positioning of 700 for signal sighting is usually a few meters behind that of older stock which will cause more of an issue at stations like E&C for the back of train.

 

[30907]

P1 was always an 8 car 319 platform, the rear coach stopped on the wooden platform across the road bridge (grandfather rights), it has lots of red signs saying move down the train to alight here. Platform is only about a metre wide.

Thanks. I haven't looked at the signs for many years.

 

[brad465]

News that they have it or news that they don't use it ?

Both, although more the former of the two points.

 

[ComUtoR]

Both, although more the former of the two points.

The Networker SDO is very primitive (just the last car locked out???) and manual with no automated safety features or announcements unlike newer systems.

Yep, the SDO is quite primitive. It can be last or first coach and is a simple button press in the cab. If you go to Charing Cross you can see the signage/instruction for it.

The one I was on today made an auto announcement to say there would be a short platform. It is programed into the onboard PIS, rather than hardcoded into the SDO. Pretty simple update tbh.

The typical platform positioning of 700 for signal sighting is usually a few meters behind that of older stock which will cause more of an issue at stations like E&C for the back of train.

Part of the reasons why the 700s get SDO at certain stations is because of the positioning of the new RLU/RLU boards. They are also shorter than the old stock they replaced. Because they had to add new boards/stop marks, they have to conform to the current standards (signal sighting requirements etc). So you get oddities like Elephant and Castle as well as Peckham Rye and Shoreham. Each of which will hold an 8 car Networker. Specific to Elephant, the 700 RLU is actually further forward than the 8 car DOO monitors.

If you drift by there could you have a look where any 4/8/s boards are?

As promised.. 4 Car just past the stairs at the end of the canopy. 5/6/8 London end.

(although presumably the fact such services will have to avoid a 466 being completely locked out where 2 coaches miss the platform is a reason why SDO isn't used).

Both a 6 and an 8 car went up there from Beckenham Junction today.

 

[Wychwood93]

Yep, the SDO is quite primitive. It can be last or first coach and is a simple button press in the cab. If you go to Charing Cross you can see the signage/instruction for it.

The one I was on today made an auto announcement to say there would be a short platform. It is programed into the onboard PIS, rather than hardcoded into the SDO. Pretty simple update tbh.



Part of the reasons why the 700s get SDO at certain stations is because of the positioning of the new RLU/RLU boards. They are also shorter than the old stock they replaced. Because they had to add new boards/stop marks, they have to conform to the current standards (signal sighting requirements etc). So you get oddities like Elephant and Castle as well as Peckham Rye and Shoreham. Each of which will hold an 8 car Networker. Specific to Elephant, the 700 RLU is actually further forward than the 8 car DOO monitors.



As promised.. 4 Car just past the stairs at the end of the canopy. 5/6/8 London end.



Both a 6 and an 8 car went up there from Beckenham Junction today.

Thank you.