Hospital Car Parking Charges

[433N]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #10 originally in this thread.

Never mind outside the UK, Scotland and Wales already have free parking at NHS Hospitals within it's borders.

I don't know where this idea comes from. It is just plain wrong. But don't take my word for it, do a google search for parking at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary (and you will usually have to queue for the pleasure of paying for parking as an added bonus).

I feel the need to pull people up on this, lest it becomes one more of those things that English people find to resent Scots for.

 

[underbank]

First get the public transport links to the hospital right. Here in York they are limited, slow, and unreliable, and many people have no option but to travel in by car (which they then, of course, need to park). Taxis are no alternative. The three-quarters of a mile between where I live and the hospital routinely costs between £6 and £7 (despite the "on-line cost recckoner" coming up with a figure of under £4!).

Spot on. It's all fine and dandy for people who live in areas with good public transport to whinge about cars and parking etc., but they should try "walking in someone else's shoes" to see the reality of towns (and even small cities) with poor public transport options. During the last Labour government, the bus service from our village to our city hospital was scrapped - now getting there by public transport means a one mile walk to the by-pass, then a 30 minute bus journey of just 5 miles, then changing bus at the city bus station, then another bus to the opposite end of the city and finally a half mile walk from the bus stop to the hospital - total time at least 2 hours. Or villagers could be there in 15 minutes by car! I took my wife only last week - noticed the "sorry there are no longer any buses to/from this stop" sign at the bus stop right outside the main entrance. Staff regularly complain in the local papers and on local Facebook pages as the park n ride doesn't go anywhere near the hospital (nor university) - well planned (not!), and the weekend buses run such a skeleton service it's no use for hospital shift workers (no buses after 8pm!).

 

[radamfi]

Spot on. It's all fine and dandy for people who live in areas with good public transport to whinge about cars and parking etc.

People whinge even in areas of good public transport. Even in the Netherlands which has the highest non-car mode share in the developed world, as they have both bikes and world class public transport, they moan about hospital car parking charges

https://www.gelderlander.nl/home/parkeren-bij-ziekenhuis-mag-geen-melkkoe-zijn~a1a80321

Millions of people have no car available in their household. If you deliberately deprive yourself of transport and choose inaccessible destinations then that is your own fault.

 

[underbank]

If you deliberately deprive yourself of transport and choose inaccessible destinations then that is your own fault.

People can't "choose" where their hospital is located and can't "choose" what public transport options are available.

 

[radamfi]

People can't "choose" where their hospital is located and can't "choose" what public transport options are available.

Lots of people manage to get to hospital without a car. My local NHS Trust has sent me to three different hospitals in the region, two of them about 10 miles from my home. I didn't drive. If you don't have a car you can't drive there anyway!

 

[GusB]

To clarify the Scottish position on free hospital parking, there are three exceptions: Ninewells in Dundee and the Royal Infirmaries in Glasgow in Edinburgh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8308517.stm

It's nearly a year since hospital car parking charges were abolished in Scotland.

Last December, the SNP made it free to park your car in any Scottish hospital, except the Royal Infirmaries of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Ninewells hospital in Dundee, where car parks were built under private finance.

While I'm largely in favour of not being charged to park at hospitals, there are issues. Over the last year or two I've had to make regular trips to Raigmore in Inverness, and it can be an absolute nightmare finding a space. I'm not convinced that everyone using the car park is there on hospital business, and I've heard a few people complaining that some use it as a park and ride facility. Given its proximity to the A9 and with good public transport links to the city centre, I can see why it would be seen as a cheaper option than parking in town.

It would be better if there was some sort of permit system whereby you're exempt from charges if you can prove that you have a valid reason to be there (appointment card/letter) or if visiting a patient, pick up a ticket from the ward reception or nurses' station. There would be costs associated with this, but they could be offset by charging those who don't have a valid reason to park there.

 

[radamfi]

If you introduce free parking then there has to be something at least as good for non drivers, for example free and enhanced public transport with comprehensive bus priority throughout the urban area, free electric bike hire combined with Dutch quality segregated paths or free shared taxis.

 

[Howardh]

People can't "choose" where their hospital is located and can't "choose" what public transport options are available.

Yes you can, to a degree. In my area when I needed knee surgery (from consultation to the actual surgery) I was offered three choices, Bolton Royal, Chorley hostpital and a local private hospital (paid for by the NHS) so I could choose the best one for me.

But my issue with parking is that many follow an ambulance that has taken a relative to A+E and when you get there there's the worry about finding a place and then paying for it when your head is overwhelmed with concern about your relative. Perhaps when you go to A+E to "sign in" before attending the patient, you can give your reg. No. and be allowed a few hours free parking in the aftermath of an emergency?

 

[edwin_m]

But my issue with parking is that many follow an ambulance that has taken a relative to A+E and when you get there there's the worry about finding a place and then paying for it when your head is overwhelmed with concern about your relative. Perhaps when you go to A+E to "sign in" before attending the patient, you can give your reg. No. and be allowed a few hours free parking in the aftermath of an emergency?

Surely even worse if you can't park because people who could have used public transport have taken up all the free spaces?

There could be a system of pay on exit (good idea for hospitals anyway, as you're never sure how long you'll be there) where anyone accompanying an A&E patient gets a free exit voucher and anyone picking up an infirm patient gets a voucher for (say) an hour's parking only. Visitors could pay for their tickets but then enter ticket numbers onto a website which could give them a partial or total refund based on their own infirmity, number of visits and ease of public transport access to their address (refunds by cheque in post to minimize address fraud).

 

[Howardh]

Surely even worse if you can't park because people who could have used public transport have taken up all the free spaces?

There could be a system of pay on exit (good idea for hospitals anyway, as you're never sure how long you'll be there) where anyone accompanying an A&E patient gets a free exit voucher and anyone picking up an infirm patient gets a voucher for (say) an hour's parking only. Visitors could pay for their tickets but then enter ticket numbers onto a website which could give them a partial or total refund based on their own infirmity, number of visits and ease of public transport access to their address (refunds by cheque in post to minimize address fraud).

Something like that, but we must keep things as simple as possible. And I agree public transport should always be available and cheap. Often thought that money taken from the car-parks should go directly to subsidised public transport to and from the hospital, although you could get to the point where the car park is empty, the bus full yet there's no subsidy from the car-park!

 

[Bletchleyite]

There could be a system of pay on exit (good idea for hospitals anyway, as you're never sure how long you'll be there) where anyone accompanying an A&E patient gets a free exit voucher and anyone picking up an infirm patient gets a voucher for (say) an hour's parking only. Visitors could pay for their tickets but then enter ticket numbers onto a website which could give them a partial or total refund based on their own infirmity, number of visits and ease of public transport access to their address (refunds by cheque in post to minimize address fraud).

MK Hospital's parking is all pay on exit. While I know it doesn't work for on street, it's a vastly superior system for every other context - though I'd imagine operators don't like it because there is no scope to fine anyone for anything, simply charge them for what they've used, so less profitable.

I don't overly mind paying for it just as I don't overly mind paying for prescriptions (though I'd rather pay a little more tax and have them free) - what I do dislike strongly is scrabbling for change and guessing how long you'll be when you are potentially not going to be able to predict that - if you get admitted it might even mean you can't move the car until the next day. It needs to be a friendly and accommodating system - pay on exit is that.

 

[Howardh]

MK Hospital's parking is all pay on exit. While I know it doesn't work for on street, it's a vastly superior system for every other context - though I'd imagine operators don't like it because there is no scope to fine anyone for anything, simply charge them for what they've used, so less profitable.

I don't overly mind paying for it just as I don't overly mind paying for prescriptions (though I'd rather pay a little more tax and have them free) - what I do dislike strongly is scrabbling for change and guessing how long you'll be when you are potentially not going to be able to predict that - if you get admitted it might even mean you can't move the car until the next day. It needs to be a friendly and accommodating system - pay on exit is that.

Just an aside - when my dad went into hospital I immediately bought a month's pass @ £25 as I knew he was likely to be in for several days or more, sadly he died a couple of days after admittance; I don't mind the loss of the ticket BUT I would have liked to donate it to a fellow visitor but couldn't as it had my registration on.

 

[433N]

To clarify the Scottish position on free hospital parking, there are three exceptions: Ninewells in Dundee and the Royal Infirmaries in Glasgow in Edinburgh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8308517.stm




While I'm largely in favour of not being charged to park at hospitals, there are issues. Over the last year or two I've had to make regular trips to Raigmore in Inverness, and it can be an absolute nightmare finding a space. I'm not convinced that everyone using the car park is there on hospital business, and I've heard a few people complaining that some use it as a park and ride facility. Given its proximity to the A9 and with good public transport links to the city centre, I can see why it would be seen as a cheaper option than parking in town.

It would be better if there was some sort of permit system whereby you're exempt from charges if you can prove that you have a valid reason to be there (appointment card/letter) or if visiting a patient, pick up a ticket from the ward reception or nurses' station. There would be costs associated with this, but they could be offset by charging those who don't have a valid reason to park there.

At my local hospital (Borders General), parking is time restricted to 3 or 4 hours (can't remember which) after which you can be fined (how enforceable this is, I am unsure but let's leave that issue aside). Waiting times at casualty can be way in excess of 4 hours, childbirth frequently takes considerably longer, chemo treatments will exceed this time etc etc ... A specialist nurse of my acquaintance spends valuable time writing dispensations for patients undergoing treatment ; time that really could be better spent on other matters. In addition, I often park in adjacent residential areas because arriving 30 minutes early for an appointment isn't a guarantee that I will be able to get a parking space in that time. At Western General in Edinburgh, they operate a special discharge facility where patients wait until they can be collected quickly by a passing carer without need for parking but it needs to be planned and executed with military precision.

In reality, a declaration of 'free hospital parking' is just a good political soundbite and the three exceptions to 'free' deal with huge numbers of patients. The reality of the situation is somewhat different to that suggested.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just an aside - when my dad went into hospital I immediately bought a month's pass @ £25 as I knew he was likely to be in for several days or more, sadly he died a couple of days after admittance; I don't mind the loss of the ticket BUT I would have liked to donate it to a fellow visitor but couldn't as it had my registration on.

You could almost wonder if some kind of TfL contactless style capping might work for those who go in thinking it's just a one off and end up going more often. Though admittedly some of these are covered anyway - cancer patients[1] at MK are given free parking, for instance.

[1] I've had some tests in the cancer ward - they use it for other things when it's not busy - and was offered this as it's just done based on which ward you're in, though I'd got the bus on that occasion so it wasn't useful.

 

[Howardh]

Must be fair and say that my local hospital, as well as many others, now offers free wifi whereas they could charge a buck for it; note that mobile signals don't reach inside my hospital! Think Id' rather have that for free than parking, especially as it means that the franchise TV* you are offered for a horrendous charge can now be avoided.
*Does anyone know their name as I believe they are nationwide??

 

[Tetchytyke]

In Newcastle the main hospital is right next to the University and the city centre, if they didn't charge you could imagine what would happen. There's also less excuse for driving.

Out in North Tyneside, the buses to the hospital are crap, there's nowt near it, the car park is a blob of tarmac, and they have the brass neck to charge two quid an hour. That is disgraceful. It's not much better at Cramlington, which is the main emergency hospital, built by the bypass and with very very limited buses (you're talking one an hour). The parking is cheaper, but there's even fewer alternatives

 

[Bletchleyite]

Must be fair and say that my local hospital, as well as many others, now offers free wifi whereas they could charge a buck for it

There's no point in anybody charging for wifi now - people will just use their data. Those who are too cheap to have a decent data package are the same people who would never pay for wifi; they'll just read a book.

 

[PeterC]

What I object to most is having to pay in advance. When I took SWMBO into A&E we had a massive wait and I was out buying new tickets about four times. Luckily the machines took cards, I probably wouldn't have had enough cash on me in notes, let alone small change.

 

[Busaholic]

Item on BBC South West Spotlight programme tonight about how much hospital trusts make from parking - over £2.5 million at Taunton and Exeter, over £2 million at Plymouth and over £1 million at Truro and Torbay. One woman has spent £3,500 on parking to visit her daughter in two different hospitals over eighteen months, which is appalling imo.

 

[lachlan]

Item on BBC South West Spotlight programme tonight about how much hospital trusts make from parking - over £2.5 million at Taunton and Exeter, over £2 million at Plymouth and over £1 million at Truro and Torbay. One woman has spent £3,500 on parking to visit her daughter in two different hospitals over eighteen months, which is appalling imo.

Is this money going back into the NHS?

You say the costs are appalling, but that's the same for public transport users. I don't think it's right for public transport users to subsidise car drivers, when bus tickets are already expensive.

 

[Raul_Duke]

I can never wrap my head round people moaning about having to pay to park their cars.

So the government should subsidise storage of your private property at the expense of patient care?

And if you live in a city where there is a parking levy then the only people paying to park would be the staff.

 

[433N]

So the government should subsidise storage of your private property at the expense of patient care?

Two things :

1. In what way is it at the expense of patient care ?

2. The question you seem to be asking is 'why should a government show compassion ?' ... how very 21st century that you can't wrap your head around the concept.

 

[lachlan]

Two things :

1. In what way is it at the expense of patient care ?

2. The question you seem to be asking is 'why should a government show compassion ?' ... how very 21st century that you can't wrap your head around the concept.

1. Parking costs money to maintain. That has to come from somewhere.
2. It's only compassionate if similar benefits are offered for public transport users.

 

[John Webb]

Having had two major problems involving hospital parking, I believe that those who through ill-health need to attend daily or weekly should not have to pay; it just adds more stress to an already stressful situation.

Charging is needed in town centre hospitals to deter non-hospital parking; such charges could be covered firstly by a refund to those who have to attend frequently, or provide some form of season ticket.​

When my late partner first went into hospital, it was felt by the medical staff essential that to aid her recovery I should attend her as much as possible. I quickly got a form signed by the ward sister which allowed me unlimited parking for a reasonable weekly fee. This was OK until she was moved to another part of the hospital site run by another part of the NHS who were not allowed to issue such permission!! I had to write to the senior officers of the two NHS Trusts involved with a threat to involve my MP before a sensible solution was reached.
On the other hand more recently I've had (successful) treatment for Prostate cancer - the hospital concerned issues a six-month certificate, and you only pay £1 for unlimited parking for a day each time you go. It is well away from any town centre, so why they can't make parking free for at least regular attenders I don't know. But it would take me an hour and a half to reach it having to use two or three bus routes; I can drive there in 35-40 minutes with far greater certainty of arriving on time for my appointments.

 

[sprunt]

There's no point in anybody charging for wifi now - people will just use their data. Those who are too cheap to have a decent data package are the same people who would never pay for wifi; they'll just read a book.

The post you're replying to here mentions that it's not possible to get a signal inside the hospital.

 

[Meerkat]

Free hospital parking is crazy talk.
If it’s free there is no incentive to car share or use public transport/taxis. Parking costs money - do the “hospital makes £2m a year from car parking” headlines mean profit or do they include the cost of building the parking in the first place? If you made parking free you would have a huge rise in demand and need to build multi-storeys.....which will be coming out of the hospital budget.

 

[Busaholic]

Is this money going back into the NHS?

You say the costs are appalling, but that's the same for public transport users. I don't think it's right for public transport users to subsidise car drivers, when bus tickets are already expensive.

The money covers the cost of 'managing' the parking, presumably based on figures given by the company with the contract, and any surplus notionally goes to the NHS trust concerned. The reporter didn't tell us what those figures were, I suspect because they're not released.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

2. The question you seem to be asking is 'why should a government show compassion ?' ... how very 21st century that you can't wrap your head around the concept.

I think 'compassion' would be something like, giving a voucher for free parking to people who have no other reasonable choice than to drive to hospital and who cannot afford parking charges.

But a blanket policy of no parking charges means that you are also providing free parking to people who could reasonably have gone to hospital by bus or walked, and also to people who are well off and very able to pay parking charges. And you not giving any help to people who don't own a car (which disproportionately means, poorer people). And to pay to maintain the parking for which you now are getting no income, you are reducing the amount of money available to the NHS for patient care. Further, by encouraging people to drive, you are causing more pollution, which other people have to breathe in, and which in some cases will lead to those people becoming ill.

You appear to be arguing that doing that would be compassionate. Certainly doesn't look like that to me!

 

[Tetchytyke]

So the government should subsidise storage of your private property at the expense of patient care?

And if you live in a city where there is a parking levy then the only people paying to park would be the staff.

Hospital parking charges affect the staff as much as the patients, which is often forgotten. My wife is an essential car user- she must have a car to do her job, it is a condition of employment- but in her last job she had to pay £70 a month to park her car at work.

So yes, the employer should be paying that.

As for patient parking, if it was revenue neutral I'd not have an issue, but in most cases the parking is generating a surplus and is priced to do so.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Hospital parking charges affect the staff as much as the patients, which is often forgotten. My wife is an essential car user- she must have a car to do her job, it is a condition of employment- but in her last job she had to pay £70 a month to park her car at work.

So yes, the employer should be paying that.

I don't think anyone has forgotten that. It's more a question that, those of us opposed to free parking don't see any reason why employees should expect to park for free. Now I'll grant that if your wife was required to have a car for her work, then that's a bit of a special situation, and in that case, it would be pretty unreasonable for an employer to expect her to pay to park it at work. But in general, for most employees, if you give them free parking, then you are giving employees who choose to drive to work an extra benefit that is not received by employees who try to be more responsible and walk/use public transport/etc. If an employer has money available to pay for free parking, then wouldn't it be better to use that money instead to give a salary increase to all employees, rather than selectively subsidising only the ones who drive? I certainly recall working at places (not hospitals) where employee parking was either not provided at all, or charged for, and I saw no problem with that.

As for patient parking, if it was revenue neutral I'd not have an issue, but in most cases the parking is generating a surplus and is priced to do so.

I think that would be a reasonable position if it wasn't for all the harm to wider society that each car journey causes, and the need therefore to discourage people from driving. This is particularly relevant to the NHS because driving - and the associated pollution and physical inactivity itself adds to people's ill-health and therefore puts an additional burden on the NHS.

And any surplus means more money for a very cash-starved NHS to spend on patient care - I'm not sure how anyone can object to that!