Why are bus company websites so dreadful?

[gordonthemoron]

Arriva website is dreadful, as is Stagecoach.

NCT & TrentBarton are good, and so is TfL if that counts

 

[goldisgood]

I find Arriva almost impossible to use, like many others here. The fairly standard design that seems to be adopted by many operators (Go South Coast, Reading Buses, Blackpool Transport, NCT, etc) is fairly nice to use, as is the other 'standard' Go Ahead website (GNE, GNW, OBC, TT, etc). Stagecoach and First are ok, but if I need timetables for any operator, more often than not I'll use bustimes.org as it's a lot easier (and the live tracking is very useful). For fares, Stagecoach seem to do it best. As has been mentioned, Go Ahead don't have their fares everywhere and I think I'm right in saying that First don't even advertise fares online. Overall all the companies could improve quite a bit, but the newer sites are pretty good (such as Bluestar and Reading Buses) as long as everything is set up well.

 

[radamfi]

There is, it's called Google Maps. But there did used to be such a site run by Southern Vectis by agreement with a number of other bus companies - it just fell at the hurdle you mention of bus operators being more interested in their petty spats.

If I recall correctly, the funding by bus companies ended when Traveline started, which also meant the end of the GB Bus Timetable book. In theory, everyone should be using Traveline for journey planners but it isn't reliable and doesn't know fares. Switzerland still has a "official timetable" website where you can download pdf timetables for all services in the country, except for city services

https://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/en/welcome.html

They used to have a three volume timetable book, a yellow one for buses, blue for trains and a smaller book for boats. You could buy it at the Swiss Centre in Leicester Square. I presume they no longer print them any more but the pdfs in the site above are in the same format as the book was.

The bus station in Utrecht used to sell little books for all companies in the Netherlands and you could buy the set by post. You can still download the books from the company websites but again I don't think they are printed.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I have thought for many many years that bus companies don't really do anything much to help themselves. Whether it be constant tinkering with schedules or high signle fares and no "transfer" type offerings where >1 bus is needed. Publicity is another symptom of the same thing. They seem to have become entrenched in a cycle of running (often decreasing) services and just hoping people will turn up at stops. Which they do, of course, notably in urban/high frequency locations - but in nationally decreasing numbers it seems.

As for

....the lack of standardisation in the way bus services are presented, run and charged is a big part of the continuing decline in bus users versus the continual increase in rail....

the privatised rail companies seem on the face of it to be desperate to repeat the exact same thing with decreasing co-operation and increasing fragmentation, hard to find comprehensive timetables for shared routes, TOC-specific fares and so on.

 

[MedwayValiant]

FBB's Public Transport Experience blog goes on at length (!) about how websites are always wrong and how going on line is always the thin end of the wedge.

Mr FBB is very keen on saying that the problem with bus company websites - and with some of the Traveline websites, although not the south east one which is probably the only one that anybody actually uses any more - is that you can only find the information you need if you already more-or-less know it.

If you already know that the bus from Markettown to Biggishvillage is number 6 and it runs about once an hour, then you probably won't have too much difficulty discovering that the first bus on a Saturday is at 0820. But if you want to go Biggishvillage and have never been to Markettown before, and you don't already know that the bus stop called "Railway End (Red Lion)" is actually 2 minutes walk from Markettown station but the Red Lion itself was knocked down twenty years ago, you might be struggling. It's not the case any more, but at one time Traveline just would not admit of the existence of Penzance town centre unless you knew to call it Chyandour.

Now OK, Mr FBB does have a couple of axes to grind, but he does also have some part of a point. His Great British Bus Time Table foundered because it didn't make a profit - but if a non-commercial organisation were able to produce something of the kind with no requirement to make a profit, I dare say there'd be some sort of market for it. (Is that more or less what the Bus Times website is, or is it actually run by some part of the bus industry?)

Sure, a lot of that market would be enthusiasts - but hey, their money is as good as anyone else's. But also libraries and enquiry offices, where such things still exist?

 

[ag51ruk]

A shout out for the excellent Derbyshire County Council service - while not updated as quickly as it used to be (and the forthcoming changes page is often out of date) the actual timetables are always accurate, in PDF format so can be printed off and the printed area timetable books are still available to buy. They also have very comprehensive maps of the whole county, and detailed maps of some urban areas and town centres.

http://www.derbysbus.info/times/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Mr FBB is very keen on saying that the problem with bus company websites - and with some of the Traveline websites, although not the south east one which is probably the only one that anybody actually uses any more - is that you can only find the information you need if you already more-or-less know it.

If you already know that the bus from Markettown to Biggishvillage is number 6 and it runs about once an hour, then you probably won't have too much difficulty discovering that the first bus on a Saturday is at 0820. But if you want to go Biggishvillage and have never been to Markettown before, and you don't already know that the bus stop called "Railway End (Red Lion)" is actually 2 minutes walk from Markettown station but the Red Lion itself was knocked down twenty years ago, you might be struggling. It's not the case any more, but at one time Traveline just would not admit of the existence of Penzance town centre unless you knew to call it Chyandour.

Now OK, Mr FBB does have a couple of axes to grind, but he does also have some part of a point. His Great British Bus Time Table foundered because it didn't make a profit - but if a non-commercial organisation were able to produce something of the kind with no requirement to make a profit, I dare say there'd be some sort of market for it. (Is that more or less what the Bus Times website is, or is it actually run by some part of the bus industry?)

Sure, a lot of that market would be enthusiasts - but hey, their money is as good as anyone else's. But also libraries and enquiry offices, where such things still exist?

FBB is also a master at being deliberately contentious in a "I typed in X and got Y" but a person would be much more likely to type in A and B and actually get C. Of course, if I were to want a bus from Biggishvillage to Markettown then I could get a timetable but will it even have the Railway End as a timing point? Will the print gang be any more on the ball in knowing the Red Lion was demolished in a Millennium Eve celebration? As I said, incorrect information is a challenge irrespective of the media employed. And, of course, what about when the Water board decide to dig up the road and it necessitates a diversion?

I'm pretty certain that the GBBTT was mainly bought by enthusiasts and whilst that money is as good as anyone's, it wasn't available in big enough sums. It was only kept afloat by the donation of funds from the big groups and the DfT. Once Traveline came along, then the funding went so the goose was cooked which is why FBB has that particular axe to grind with Traveline. Also, GBTT had limited information (naturally you can't fit that many timing points or route variations) and excluded services that weren't daily. Good for the enthusiast and I have a few copies; it's moderately interesting on a dark winters' night but not really a practicable product.

Arguably, the best approach was for local authorities to produce a selection of local guides but now the issue is who pays.

There are good bus company websites and Go North East is perhaps the best and operators should really be reaching that as a base product. Then they have to ensure that the information is updated accordingly.

 

[radamfi]

Switzerland still has a "official timetable" website where you can download pdf timetables for all services in the country, except for city services

https://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/en/welcome.html

They used to have a three volume timetable book, a yellow one for buses, blue for trains and a smaller book for boats. You could buy it at the Swiss Centre in Leicester Square. I presume they no longer print them any more but the pdfs in the site above are in the same format as the book was.

Further information here (in German)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offizielles_Kursbuch

The nationwide train/bus timetable had been produced from as early as 1905. Buses were split into a separate book in 1987. The online pdfs started in 2005/6. The last printed edition was 2016/17, although the train/cable car/boat book has continued independently by passenger organisations.

 

[Megafuss]

The ARRIVA one is the worst, but only now that Transdev has sorted it's web offering. Those websites were truly dreadful.

 

[Deerfold]

The ARRIVA one is the worst, but only now that Transdev has sorted it's web offering. Those websites were truly dreadful.

They still need a lot of improving.

The Keighley one doesn't include the Burnley route that serves it (M4). There's a great map, but it's not in the "maps and timetables" section. The school services are no longer in a separate section and no longer indicate which are open to the general public and which are not. There's two lists of available tickets. They're different. I was told these would all be changed. On September 18.

 

[Statto]

There is, it's called Google Maps. But there did used to be such a site run by Southern Vectis by agreement with a number of other bus companies - it just fell at the hurdle you mention of bus operators being more interested in their petty spats.

I will never ever use google maps for bus route info, they're quite often well out of date, example they're still listing 40/40A from one of my local stops even though they were withdrawn 5/6 years ago, also listed is route 18, that was withdrawn when the company operating it closed down last year.

National Express sites, you don't have to do a route search, like West Midlands site, click information, then you should then get sub menu, with like West Midlands Bus Routes, & click underneath Please click here for a full listing of all currently active bus routes.

 

[njlawley]

The fairly standard design that seems to be adopted by many operators (Go South Coast, Reading Buses, Blackpool Transport, NCT, etc) is fairly nice to use

That is a standard (to a degree customisable) design by Bournemouth-based Passenger, and is the successor to the old Netescape CMS system that a lot of companies used in the past.

the other 'standard' Go Ahead website (GNE, GNW, OBC, TT, etc).

This is the Go-Ahead default, made by a London based design company called Pancentric.

Overall all the companies could improve quite a bit, but the newer sites are pretty good (such as Bluestar and Reading Buses) as long as everything is set up well.

It's an evolving product, especially with Passenger who are developing things all the time. But things will usually come at a cost.

 

[kevjs]

I've liked the Nottingham City Transport one for a number of years - has everything I've ever wanted, much better than any of the other operators I've tried (which hasn't included any of the big ones).

https://www.nctx.co.uk/