8-DUF = a southern region code for ?

[westcoaster]

Hi guys bit of a strange question, while lookinh on p2 the other day i noticed that there were 3 trains in Gatwick carriage sidings and they were labbeled (instead of headcode) as 8-319, 3-165, and 8-DUF , now the first two are easy being an 8 car 319 and a 3 car 165 , now is an 8-DUF a class 460 as that would seem logical.

Also does anyone know where you would find out these codes?

 

[jopsuk]

There's a decent list of Southern region codes on wikipedia. Anything posts 70's is not "official" as such, but the 660s are classed as 8GAT. Not everything that tuns on the southern region has codes- I notice there's nothing listed for any Networkers or Electrostars, and that page seems to be the only one on the internet where the class 395 is reffered to as a "6JAV"!

 

[yorksrob]

Good list, although I always thought PAN stoodfor pantry rather than Parcels and Newspaper.

 

[westcoaster]

ok thanks for that i thought 460's = 8 gat.

 

[jopsuk]

Good list, although I always thought PAN stoodfor pantry rather than Parcels and Newspaper.

Both! Pantry in original use, Parcels and Newspapers in later use, well after the 6PAN were withdrawn

 

[Oracle]

The 442s were 5-WES, for 'Wessex Electrics'..are they still?

 

[westcoaster]

Not sure about the 442's I would guess they will be 5-gat/ 5-sus sus = sussex electrics.

 

[LE Greys]

...that page seems to be the only one on the internet where the class 395 is reffered to as a "6JAV"!

Did they copy that off me or make it up themselves? That's my personal code for the 395 and I posted it on another forum.

Other codes nobody else uses
375/377 - 3CRB/4CRB
376 - 5ERB (comes from Electro-Regenerative Brake)
465 - 4NET
495/9 - 4NES
466 - 2NET
159 - 3W
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not sure about the 442's I would guess they will be 5-gat/ 5-sus sus = sussex electrics.

442s are still 5WES (at least according my Platform 5 book).

 

[MCR247]

Did they copy that off me or make it up themselves? That's my personal code for the 395 and I posted it on another forum.

Other codes nobody else uses
375/376 - 3CRB/4CRB
377 - 5ERB (comes from Electro-Regenerative Brake)
465 - 4NET
495/9 - 4NES
466 - 2NET
159 - 3W

How does that work?
376s are 5 car, 375s are 3/4 cars, 377s are 4 car :?

 

[bluebottle]

Not sure about the 442's I would guess they will be 5-gat/ 5-sus sus = sussex electrics.

I don't see why that should be, 4CIGs were always 4CIGs regardless of their actual diagrams.

 

[yorksrob]

Both! Pantry in original use, Parcels and Newspapers in later use, well after the 6PAN were withdrawn

Thanks - You learn something new evey day

 

[thefab444]

455s are 4 HITs. Presumably that makes 456s 2 HITs but I'm not sure.

 

[Helvellyn]

As has been said the 442s are still 5-WES. In BR days they would have been reclassified as 441 though, as 4x2 classification designated buffet stock, and the units don't have those now!

 

[jopsuk]

Shouldn't they have been, under that system, 452 (later 451) as they were 1980's designed units (not 1970s, as 44x classification suggests)?

 

[royaloak]

What about the 444s then?

Unfortunately the SR numbering system fell out of favour so we now have this hotch potch system that defies logic.

 

[jopsuk]

Hmm. I reckon if the system had continued (and the Wessexs had been "properly" numbered in the first place) then some level of "recycling" would have taken place- with no Southern designed units in operation, the 40x series would have been available, so 444s would have been 402, and the 450 would surely have been 403- perhaps (as a 1990s unit although not a Networker) the 458 would have been 463?

(Just in case anyne is lost following this logic, the system is outlined here)

What about the 460? Although introduced 2000, it is presumably a 1990s design, so is almost but not quite correct- having no buffet, they should be 461?

 

[barrykas]

Hi guys bit of a strange question, while lookinh on p2 the other day i noticed that there were 3 trains in Gatwick carriage sidings and they were labbeled (instead of headcode) as 8-319, 3-165, and 8-DUF , now the first two are easy being an 8 car 319 and a 3 car 165 , now is an 8-DUF a class 460 as that would seem logical.

I would hazard a guess that the 8-DUF was a failure. In our neck of the woods at work, that'd usually get labelled as "NAKA" or "NFG.". We did spot one labelled as "CRAP" (or something of that ilk) once, mind you.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[CCF23]

What about the 444s then?

I think they are 5-DES, the 450's are 4-DES I'm pretty sure

 

[royaloak]

I think they are 5-DES, the 450's are 4-DES I'm pretty sure

I was refering to jopsuk post below-

Shouldn't they have been, under that system, 452 (later 451) as they were 1980's designed units (not 1970s, as 44x classification suggests)?

 

[LE Greys]

How does that work?
376s are 5 car, 375s are 3/4 cars, 377s are 4 car :?

That was a typo, I've fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think they are 5-DES, the 450's are 4-DES I'm pretty sure

I think that 5DES was originally for the 5-car 450s that ended up becoming 350s. It got reassigned to the 444s (which I have always called 5DEX) for some reason or other.

 

[Helvellyn]

Shouldn't they have been, under that system, 452 (later 451) as they were 1980's designed units (not 1970s, as 44x classification suggests)?

The classification doesn't designate decade of build though.

The 41x series was essentially the first BR generation d.c. units (for Southern region), and included the EPB stock numbered in the SR series.

Then came the 42x series, which was second generation in effect.

The 43x series was used by the REPs, though the TC units weren't originally 438.

The 445/446 series went to the PEPs, though the 455s nearly became 510!

The 442s could have been 452, but as they used different traction packages, etc, to the 455s they were classified 442 (and with the PEPs withdrawn the 44x series was vacant).

The odd things comes with the Networkers. The 465/466 classification fits, but the long distance units for the Kent Coast were going to be 471 not 461 as logic would have suggested, given they were also a Networker.

444, 450, 458 and 460 have no logic at all in the numbering system! The only one that might fit is 444 - it was essentially putting the long distance, 23m body unit, in the same grouping (44x series) as the 442.

 

[bluebottle]

A thought occurs to me, if Southern's 442 were modified specifically for use on the Brighton line then they would deserve a new code. I'm thinking 5 car Wessex (Brighton) which would come out as a 5WIG.

 

[westcoaster]

I was begining t think the same, about it meaning something other than a unit type:

Duf= double unit failure

Duf = directly under flight path

Duf = don't use failes

Duf = departure for up fast.

 

[flymo]

I actually thought 8-DUF was what Homer Simpson buys at the Kwik-e-Mart (or was that 8 Duff)

Anyhoo..When I was a little nipper my family would travel down to Portsmouth from Waterloo Station and I always remember being incredibly confused by a conversation between two bashers back then. They had their stock numbers books out and were talking about VEP's, COR's, BIL's, HAL's etc but I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about. Being interested in trains even back then I wanted to learn but it took me years to understand all the different types.. then they were withdrawn. Boo.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The 445/446 series went to the PEPs, though the 455s nearly became 510!

I think the change from 510 to 455 came at a very late stage; I remember when the units were still reasonably new more than one guard showing me, during turnaround at Waterloo, a sticker inside the cab which actually included the class 510 designation.