National Rail Enquiries - Do they read what they write?

[Baxenden Bank]

Advice for CrossCountry customers:

You may use your ticket on

· East Midlands Railway between Stoke-On-Trent and Derby in both directions until further notice.


Advice for East Midlands Railway customers:

Derby - Stoke-on-Trent

Trains are not able to run and there is no road transport available due to poor road conditions in the area. We are continuing to try to source road transport.

Left hand, meet right hand. Right hand, meet left hand.

 

[kieron]

I don't know what this is in relation to, but they don't seem to have said anything about XC passengers using EMR trains. I hope the full thing explains why XC passengers are expected to go between Stoke and Derby at all.

 

[Smethwickian]

I don't know what this is in relation to, but they don't seem to have said anything about XC passengers using EMR trains. I hope the full thing explains why XC passengers are expected to go between Stoke and Derby at all.

Services through Stoke are severely disrupted by flooding. There are a number of pieces of information regarding alternative routes and ticket acceptance, to be read in conjunction also with disruption elsewhere.
NRE is telling XC customers there is ticket acceptance between Stoke and Derby - then on the same page telling all passengers there are no trains between Stoke and Derby.
It is a contradiction. One piece of advice is made impossible by the other.

 

[30907]

Ticket acceptance is in place. If Stoke-Derby reopens before the XC route, the info will again be relevant.

 

[PHILIPE]

I've seen more than once advice from NRE that tickets have been agreed on TOCxx services but these services have been cancelled due to the same closure

 

[syorksdeano]

I do think that they could reword what they write.

For example yesterday the Airedale and Wharfdale lines were closed due to signalling issues. The way it was worded is that ticket acceptance had been made with Crosscountry and Transpennine on all reasonable routes, indicating that those services were running on those lines. Good luck on that one

 

[717001]

Do they write it - or do they host info provided by the train operators? (Genuine question)

 

[PHILIPE]

Yesterday the Marches was closed due to flooding without buses and TFW were telling passengers to travel via Birmingham and Bristol Parkway. Catch ? Bristol Parkway closed due to Engineering Work.

 

[greaterwest]

Yesterday the Marches was closed due to flooding without buses and TFW were telling passengers to travel via Birmingham and Bristol Parkway. Catch ? Bristol Parkway closed due to Engineering Work.

It's still an alternative route, I can see why they advised travel that way.

 

[Atishyou]

Do they write it - or do they host info provided by the train operators? (Genuine question)

They write it.

Unfortunately, sometimes, the information and situation changes that quick, that they don't have time to re-read over the full disruption information from the TOCs before making changes, so small bits of info like this may not be noticed straight away.

Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to see if any of you know how many people manage all the incidents for the whole network at any one time?

 

[tsr]

They write it.

Depends on the TOC. Some have an agreement that NRCC (the National Rail Communications Centre, who send disruption info to NRE) will copy-and-paste directly from the message the operator puts out, but for some others, they are allowed to paraphrase if they think it's clearer. Both methods have their pitfalls.

 

[infobleep]

Depends on the TOC. Some have an agreement that NRCC (the National Rail Communications Centre, who send disruption info to NRE) will copy-and-paste directly from the message the operator puts out, but for some others, they are allowed to paraphrase if they think it's clearer. Both methods have their pitfalls.

I can see why. If someone rewrites a notice, they might remove something important, thinking it reads better without it.

However equally two notices combined and unchanged might contradict one another.

The other thing I find not to be consistant is the putting up of disruption notices.

Sometimes you get notices for 15 minute delays. Other days you just get a note on the top of live departure boards, with no link. Other times it will just be something on the TOCs own Web Site. Finally other times just against each individual train that is delayed or nothing at all.

The other day there was a disruption notice for delays of up to 5 minutes on the Thameslink routes, due to signalling issues. The delays seemed to be roughly consistant with that at the time I was looking. However it must surely though have been a much longer delay when the notice first went up. After all why would someone go to the trouble of putting up a disruption notice if the delays were only up to 5 minutes?

 

[infobleep]

As to highlight the issue of inconstant disruption notices. Today there is up to 15 minutes of disruption between Reading and Wokingham due signalling issues.

Trains from Reading to Gatwick Airport are having the Gatwick Airport stop removed, due to late running, yet there is no disruption notice, just a note on the top of the live departure boards for affected stations. As the image below, taken from the National Rail Enquiries App, shows.

Each service of course has it's own note but if stops are being cancelled from mutiple trains, then I'd expect it to incur a disruption notice. Especially has other disruptions, involving South Western Railway and up to 15 minutes of delays, have led to disruption notices being put up.

 

[infobleep]

And to highlight my point even further,, there is a signalling issue (points failure) at Redhill meaning the train I'm on has had to skip it.

The earliest tarin to be delayed, according to thr National Rail Enquiries live departure board is the 7:31 Redhill to Reading service. It's 8:19 when I looked there was no disruption notice covering the points issue. Not even a disruption note at the top of the live departure board! Maybe the 7:31 was delayed for other reasons and the problem occurred later. but the next one to be delayed is the 7:54 to Reigate.

Surely over 20 minutes since 7:54 it's long enough to put up a disruotion note and a preliminary disruption notice. The note is only a 2 line job.

The 7:54 has no reason for its delay. Not the 7:57 either. The train devides at Redhill. As the images at the end of this post show: I have in the past asked National Rail Enquiries if they would put up a disruption notice. This doesn't always lead to them doing so. The last time I did this, South Western Railway did so shortly before I composed my tweet but National Rail Enquiries didn't.

As an aside, the train I am on was diverted on to the quarry line, thus skipping Redhill Station itself and it was only announced after we left Gatwick Airport. We had to wait for a slot to shift over to it.

 

[infobleep]

Credit where credit is due, they have now put up disruption notices for both the Reading to Wokingham issue and the Redhill issue but they are not perfect notices but staff are probably under pressure to get stuff up.

The Wokingham issue is going to last until midday and they are allowing passengers to go via London Paddington if you need to get to or from Gatwick Airport. No mention of up to 15 minute delays and also it was added at 8:14. The first train I saw affected was the 6:32 from Reading. There was at least a disruption note.

A fault with the signalling system between Reading and Wokingham is causing disruption to trains between these stations. Trains may be delayed or cancelled until approximately 12:00.

Customer advice:

Customer tickets to / from Gatwick Airport will be valid for travel via London Victoria and London Paddington. Using Southern Railway / London underground services and South Western Railway.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/234165.aspx

I was about to say the notice is well written. However it offers no advise for those using South Western Railway. Maybe they don't need to travel London Paddington as they aren't so badly affected.in which case it is well written. However the 15 minute reference might be useful if added and solely applied to their services.

As for the Redhill disruption. That makes no reference to Great Western Railway services and there is not even a disruption note link from stations such as Dorking Deepdene. So they have only linked the notice to Govia Thameslink Railway services that use Redhill Station. In fact the notice says which TOCs are affected and they aren't mentioned. This was added at 8:22 and expected to last until 11am. This one was at least put up more quickly than the Wokingham one.

A points failure at Redhill is causing disruption to trains at the station. Trains may be delayed or cancelled until approximately 11:00.

Customer Advice

Your journey will be extended this morning by up to 40 minutes if you are travelling between Redhill and Gatwick and Redhill and East Croydon.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/234166.aspx

 

[infobleep]

Interestingly they are now advising customers using Southern branded services to travel to Reigate on the Great Western Railway services. Last train to leave from Redhill to Reigate, on Great Western Railway was the 8:14, which left at 8:16, it is now 10:19.

You are advised to change for a Great Western services from Redhill that run towards Reigate.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/234166.aspx

You'd be quicker walking, if one can manage it.

 

[Steve Harris]

Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to see if any of you know how many people manage all the incidents for the whole network at any one time?

Obviously not enough ??

 

[Atishyou]

Depends on the TOC. Some have an agreement that NRCC (the National Rail Communications Centre, who send disruption info to NRE) will copy-and-paste directly from the message the operator puts out, but for some others, they are allowed to paraphrase if they think it's clearer. Both methods have their pitfalls.

Cheers, I know who the NRCC are. When was the copy and paste introduced? That's never been what the NRCC are there for. They're there to take railway speak, many times with jargon heavy language, and change it to plain English.

Interesting that nobody has said how many people they think 'looks after' the network.

 

[Atishyou]

As to highlight the issue of inconstant disruption notices. Today there is up to 15 minutes of disruption between Reading and Wokingham due signalling issues.

Trains from Reading to Gatwick Airport are having the Gatwick Airport stop removed, due to late running, yet there is no disruption notice, just a note on the top of the live departure boards for affected stations. As the image below, taken from the National Rail Enquiries App, shows.
View attachment 69873
Each service of course has it's own note but if stops are being cancelled from mutiple trains, then I'd expect it to incur a disruption notice. Especially has other disruptions, involving South Western Railway and up to 15 minutes of delays, have led to disruption notices being put up.

Bearing in mind, they cover the whole Country, it's a situation which, whilst you may think requires a disruption item, as long as the trains are updating in live departure boards, a simple IPTIS bulletin and RTTI message would suffice. It's a case of meeting certain Criteria (which it obviously subsequently has), otherwise there would be an overload of information on the website almost constantly.

 

[infobleep]

Bearing in mind, they cover the whole Country, it's a situation which, whilst you may think requires a disruption item, as long as the trains are updating in live departure boards, a simple IPTIS bulletin and RTTI message would suffice. It's a case of meeting certain Criteria (which it obviously subsequently has), otherwise there would be an overload of information on the website almost constantly.

I understand they might not want every notice up but I come across notices for delays of up to 15 minutes and surely that shouldn't be long enough to justify a notice. It doesn't seem to be consistent. Some 15 minute delays get a notice and other don't.

I hadn't thought about the fact that it could be a small team of people covering the while country. If that is the case, they might not know whether a notice is correct as they wouldn't necessarily know the area in question.

 

[Atishyou]

I understand they might not want every notice up but I come across notices for delays of up to 15 minutes and surely that shouldn't be long enough to justify a notice. It doesn't seem to be consistent. Some 15 minute delays get a notice and other don't.

I hadn't thought about the fact that it could be a small team of people covering the while country. If that is the case, they might not know whether a notice is correct as they wouldn't necessarily know the area in question.

You'd be surprised at their knowledge, considering they cover the whole Country, coupled with the fact that there's only two people covering the service disruption desks.

Like I say, there's set criteria for service disruptions, so for some 15 minute delays, that criteria must have been met.

 

[infobleep]

You'd be surprised at their knowledge, considering they cover the whole Country, coupled with the fact that there's only two people covering the service disruption desks.

Like I say, there's set criteria for service disruptions, so for some 15 minute delays, that criteria must have been met.

Is that critira published publically anywhere. Might be interesting to read. What I think would be the critira might not actually be so.

I hadn't released such few people were involved. There must surely be more than enough work for them to do.

 

[Atishyou]

Is that critira published publically anywhere. Might be interesting to read. What I think would be the critira might not actually be so.

I hadn't released such few people were involved. There must surely be more than enough work for them to do.

Inundated on some days, and considering that, I think they do an excellent job. If people spot mistakes, it's quicker and easier if they just drop them a tweet and it can then be corrected as quickly as possible.

A lot of the criteria was agreed with internal stakeholders years ago, I'm not sure if it's available in the public domain.

 

[infobleep]

Inundated on some days, and considering that, I think they do an excellent job. If people spot mistakes, it's quicker and easier if they just drop them a tweet and it can then be corrected as quickly as possible.

A lot of the criteria was agreed with internal stakeholders years ago, I'm not sure if it's available in the public domain.

I do drop them tweets and did so today. I don't always like to accuse them of a mistake as maybe l see it as a mistake but actually there is good reason why they don't do something.

Today I e-mailed National Rail Enquiries, regarding the fact the disruption notice at Redhill didn't cover GWR and asked if I was right in assuming they were affected.

I didn't get a response. If I had, I would then have asked if they could update the disruption notice to include them.

 

[Atishyou]

I do drop them tweets and did so today. I don't always like to accuse them of a mistake as maybe l see it as a mistake but actually there is good reason why they don't do something.

Today I e-mailed National Rail Enquiries, regarding the fact the disruption notice at Redhill didn't cover GWR and asked if I was right in assuming they were affected.

I didn't get a response. If I had, I would then have asked if they could update the disruption notice to include them.

The emails go to the contact centre. I don't know much about their response times or service.

The tweets go to the Nrcc, the team who do the disruption info.

Totally different teams.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't know what this is in relation to, but they don't seem to have said anything about XC passengers using EMR trains. I hope the full thing explains why XC passengers are expected to go between Stoke and Derby at all.

I do sometimes speculate that the renaming of various franchises to "X Railway" is to emphasise that the railway will be present, but not necessarily the trains

 

[infobleep]

The emails go to the contact centre. I don't know much about their response times or service.

The tweets go to the Nrcc, the team who do the disruption info.

Totally different teams.

Apologies my mistake. I wrote e-mail when I meant Tweet