Is First Class too expensive and should it be abolished?

[BenW390Fan]

Not a word of apology, if events took place as you describe?

No - you're BSing us. Safe to dismiss this as total fabrication.

I'm being honest, from what I heard there wasn't an apology or I missed it out if there was one. The whole story is true.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Now First Class is primarily a leisure product I find that just as likely to come from families in there as in Standard.

It can be, there was a very irritating lady who shared a bay of 4 with myself and 2 friends who played music loudly through poor quality headphones, and had about half a dozen bags in hers and my friend's footspace, meaning both of their legs stuck out towards me and the other chap in the aisle seat. Ungracious in the extreme!

 

[nlogax]

Having tried Virgin's "effort" earlier in the month I don't think I could ever justify more than a trivially small mark up. EMT's, as it was then when I tried it this time last year, was even worse.

Out of interest, what is it that you expect from first class?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find Virgin's First Class to be the best in the UK, both in terms of the seat and in terms of the service, though I'd be happy for the complimentary service to be dropped if it meant the price was reduced.

 

[ricoblade]

From my POV, I often need to work on the train and the extra space in (certainly LNER and Hull trains) 1st class allows me to do this. I had a job a few years ago where I could only travel 2nd class and I found it restrictive.

 

[Terry Tait]

First class is a great thing for the avoidance of noisy children.

 

[sprunt]

First class shouldn't be abolished, but it should be automatically declassified when all seats in standard are occupied. By all means allow people to pay extra for an enhanced service level, but it shouldn't be necessary to pay extra for simple access to the service. And yes, one can stand on trains when all the seats in standard are full, but on an intercity journey it's an unreasonable expectation when there are empty seats elsewhere on the train.

 

[Mag_seven]

First class is a great thing for the avoidance of noisy children.

Not in my experience.

First class shouldn't be abolished, but it should be automatically declassified when all seats in standard are occupied

Then you would have to refund all those with first class tickets on the train. Declassifiying does happen occasionally but it should be the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Bald Rick]

First class shouldn't be abolished, but it should be automatically declassified when all seats in standard are occupied. By all means allow people to pay extra for an enhanced service level, but it shouldn't be necessary to pay extra for simple access to the service. And yes, one can stand on trains when all the seats in standard are full, but on an intercity journey it's an unreasonable expectation when there are empty seats elsewhere on the train.

What happens when a passenger with a first class ticket boards at the first station after the declassification?

 

[sprunt]

What happens when a passenger with a first class ticket boards at the first station after the declassification?

The same as happens now when a passenger with a first class ticket boards after declassification, presumably. Obviously first class passengers would have to be refunded when first class is declassified but that might provide an incentive to the industry to provide sufficient space in standard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What happens when a passenger with a first class ticket boards at the first station after the declassification?

The train has no First Class, therefore they are entitled to a refund of the difference.

 

[Bald Rick]

The same as happens now when a passenger with a first class ticket boards after declassification, presumably. Obviously first class passengers would have to be refunded when first class is declassified but that might provide an incentive to the industry to provide sufficient space in standard.

The train has no First Class, therefore they are entitled to a refund of the difference.

I was being slightly rhetorical. I know what happens. But if every train had first class automatically declassified immediately it had all standard seats taken, that would be rather difficult to manage, and have the potential for significant passenger confusion.

 

[Mag_seven]

I was being slightly rhetorical. I know what happens. But if every train had first class automatically declassified immediately it had all standard seats taken, that would be rather difficult to manage, and have the potential for significant passenger confusion.

Pity the poor guard even trying to ascertain whether every standard class seat was taken - people have been known to stand even when seats are available. It's a completely bonkers and unworkable idea.

 

[sprunt]

Pity the poor guard even trying to ascertain whether every standard class seat was taken - people have been known to stand even when seats are available. It's a completely bonkers and unworkable idea.

Okay then, I'll amend my original thinking to simplify. Yes, first class should be abolished.

 

[Mag_seven]

Okay then, I'll amend my original thinking to simplify. Yes, first class should be abolished.

Fair enough - but I've got news for you - it won't happen.

 

[ComUtoR]

It's a completely bonkers and unworkable idea.

Na, technology could solve it. My car has an occupancy detector. You could put one in every seat of the train and when all are occupied then an automatic announcement is made to immediately declassify first class.

With it being such prevalent technology in cars, it must be really cheap to implement on a train.

 

[ComUtoR]

Fair enough - but I've got news for you - it won't happen.

Unless your traveling on my TOC....

 

[Mag_seven]

I wonder if say British Airways could introduce something similar i.e. when economy class is full, business class seats get sold at economy class prices.

 

[Llanigraham]

Na, technology could solve it. My car has an occupancy detector. You could put one in every seat of the train and when all are occupied then an automatic announcement is made to immediately declassify first class.

With it being such prevalent technology in cars, it must be really cheap to implement on a train.

Fine until someone puts a hefty case down on the seat.
And the usual retort, who pays? Because the answer will be US the passengers.

 

[Llanigraham]

I wonder if say British Airways could introduce something similar i.e. when economy class is full, business class seats get sold at economy class prices.

All that many airlines do in that case is look at the passengers that have got in "cattle" class and up-grade a few so they can sell their seats to those waiting.
I know, it's happened to me and the wine and canapes we were very pleasant.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

GWR once got rid of First Class on the 165's and the experience for a while which wasn't half comfortable - sitting in the front forward window seat, front coach reminded me of the own-compartment Mark 1's.

In my view, GWR should make the table seats at the cab ends on the 166's the Quiet Zone rather than First Class - it'd distract the driver less!

 

[mark-h]

I wonder if say British Airways could introduce something similar i.e. when economy class is full, business class seats get sold at economy class prices.

They do- on routes where there is less premium cabin demand they will sell more economy seats than they have available and upgrade some passengers. Unlike most railways they know what the situation will be before boarding and can choose which passengers to upgrade based on their ticket type and status as a customer.

 

[iainbhx]

I wonder if say British Airways could introduce something similar i.e. when economy class is full, business class seats get sold at economy class prices.

On short-haul the full IATA C fare is often very little more than the full IATA Y fare. Also on short haul, they would just turn more business into economy if that was possible. It depends what the computer says. Also as mark-h says above, they will oversell and upgrade - as a former LH Gold card holder I did have a few of these and once turned one down which caused no end of trouble.

On long-haul I have sometimes seen lower but more restricted fares in business class than the lowest available economy fare but it is very unusual.

 

[option]

The same as happens now when a passenger with a first class ticket boards after declassification, presumably. Obviously first class passengers would have to be refunded when first class is declassified but that might provide an incentive to the industry to provide sufficient space in standard.

Would that refund be automatically issued, & in my account by the next working day?

 

[trainophile]

What if 1st is declassified due to no Standard seats left, and at the next station Standard empties out? Would all the upgradees have to traipse back to the Standard coaches ?

 

[Failed Unit]

Na, technology could solve it. My car has an occupancy detector. You could put one in every seat of the train and when all are occupied then an automatic announcement is made to immediately declassify first class.

With it being such prevalent technology in cars, it must be really cheap to implement on a train.

That would encourage people to put bags on the seats. my laptop is heavy enough to fool the car.

 

[RSA BOB]

You cannot do away with First Class because what would the train manager (or whatever you want to call him/her) do to people in standard class who have reserved seats
which have been taken by somebody who will not move.

 

[stj]

Maybe on routes where the longest journey is around 2 hrs .Most similar flight times are on one class aircraft.
Along with regional train services which have been one class for years.

 

[RailWonderer]

Rail companies weigh up revenue grabbing opportunities with their obligation to provide capacity on trains.

If there’s a small group of businessmen who are extremely lucrative to the operator and few first seats, it stays. If they don’t make much money on first because most sales are from cheap weekend upgrades it’s probably going for scrap.
Depends. It’s clear by now all IC trains need first class question is how much and that’s TOC specific.
Commuter and regional trains depend on the affluence of patronage.

 

[Crepello]

... when all are occupied then an automatic announcement is made to immediately declassify first class.

Schoolkids will love that...