Combining National Rail tickets with Oyster

[prd101]

I'm not sure how or if this could work, any suggestions please?

I've got an Off Peak Return from London Terminals to Portsmouth Harbour. On my outward journey I used the direct SW Trains service from Waterloo.

On my return leg I'd like to get to St Pancras station. I know that SW Trains plus underground would probably be quicker most of the time, but I'd still like to know how to go about the following:

Boarding a Southern service at Portsmouth Harbour with my return ticket and changing at somewhere like Three Bridges or Gatwick Airport (a perfectly valid route so far). Then getting on the FCC Thameslink service that would go across London to St Pancras.

The problem arises with the 'London Terminals' definition. How far would this get me, London Bridge perhaps?

Now, I do have an Oyster card and I'm prepared to use it for a single (£1.80) zone 1 journey. However, if I'm already on a service travelling into zone 1, how would I 'start' my journey with the Oyster card. Surely the barrier at St Pancras needs to know that, for example, I started my zone 1 Oyster journey at London Bridge?

Is there another option that I actually excess my existing ticket? If so, what excess do I ask for?

Thanks

 

[Mojo]

I'm not totally sure on something like this, I would have originally said your ticket needs to be to London Thameslink, but there are no fares for that journey, so I think your ticket will need to be to U1.

Excesses for half of a return are calculated from what you have already paid, the cost of the ticket if you had bought it correctly in the first instance, and half of the difference. You say you have an Off-peak return, is this the one priced at £32.00? An Off-peak return from U1 to Portsmouth Stns is £38.00, so you would pay (£38-£32) / 2 = £3 excess. As I say I'm not totally sure, so I'd wait for confirmation from someone else.

 

[swt_passenger]

As you have realised, 'London Terminals' is only valid so far from the south (to City Thameslink in fact) - so the easiest thing for you to do in practice to be completely legit is to just get off the train at any of London Bridge, Blackfriars or City T/L; touch in on a platform interchange validator, and get back on.
That will allow Oyster to deduct a zone 1 fare when you leave at St Pancras.

They haven't provided a way of touching in for Oyster PAYG on the fly - if you were using an Oyster travelcard season with zone 1 validity you'd be ok of course.

I guess you must have your own reasons for not travelling into Waterloo and on the underground though.

 

[yorkie]

I've got an Off Peak Return from London Terminals to Portsmouth Harbour. On my outward journey I used the direct SW Trains service from Waterloo.

Buy it from London St Pancras instead. The fare is the same.

If you already have it ask for an excess. The problem is that the fare is £0.00 and some people do not like issuing excess fares of £0.00 because they may have to fill in a form and it's a lot of hassle for no revenue. Not that it's any excuse, but allow a bit of time to 'shop around' until you find someone who will issue the excess.

 

[dan_atki]

I'm not totally sure on something like this, I would have originally said your ticket needs to be to London Thameslink, but there are no fares for that journey, so I think your ticket will need to be to U1.

London Thameslink is only a valid destination from Thameslink North stations (i.e. Bedford to Kentish Town inclusive).

Southern managed stations east of Chichester (where there is a lack of SWT set fare) have fares direct to St Pancras, although paul1609 will be quick to tell me that even these are incorrectly printed as to 'London Terminals' in some instances (instead of 'London St Pancrs')!

As you have realised, 'London Terminals' is only valid so far from the south (to City Thameslink in fact) - so the easiest thing for you to do in practice to be completely legit is to just get off the train at any of London Bridge, Blackfriars or City T/L; touch in on a platform interchange validator, and get back on.
That will allow Oyster to deduct a zone 1 fare when you leave at St Pancras.

There are only platform readers installed at London Bridge, and I'm not sure that since the advent of NR Oyster in January these are still operational but instead you would need to use a reader at the gateline.

As Mojo has said, the best ticket here would be the Zone U1 London for minimum hassle.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are only platform readers installed at London Bridge, and I'm not sure that since the advent of NR Oyster in January these are still operational but instead you would need to use a reader at the gateline.

Platform interchange validators ought to be still operational at LB (and everwhere else), or everyone who used to be able to travel from outside the zones and start a PAYG journey will have had a useful facility removed. Surely they don't expect everyone arriving on a NR ticket to exit at a gateline and re-enter to start a PAYG segment of theoir journey?

Same applies at places like Wimbledon, Richmond, Stratford etc etc...

 

[John @ home]

I do have an Oyster card and I'm prepared to use it for a single (£1.80) zone 1 journey. However, if I'm already on a service travelling into zone 1, how would I 'start' my journey with the Oyster card. Surely the barrier at St Pancras needs to know that, for example, I started my zone 1 Oyster journey at London Bridge?

Is there another option that I actually excess my existing ticket? If so, what excess do I ask for?

The interaction of National Rail tickets with Oyster pay-as-you-go is very unsatisfactory when the National Rail journey starts or ends outside the zones.

Your London Terminals - Portsmouth Harbour return is valid as far as City Thameslink. The only way I know of to pay £1.80 to reach St Pancras is to get off the train at a Zone 1 station, go through the barriers to end your journey from Portsmouth, then re-enter using your Oyster card. You could do this at London Bridge, Blackfriars or City Thameslink. If you can find a platform validator then that would make things a little simpler, but you still risk having to wait for the next train.

An Off-Peak Return St Pancras - Portsmouth Harbour costs £38 compared with £32 from London Terminals. It is possible to excess your ticket for the return leg only and you should do this before travelling north of St Pancras. You would have to pay half the difference, ie. £3, to excess the return leg only.

If you use your Oyster card to exit at St Pancras without having used it to enter the system, you will be charged the maximum cash fare. If challenged between City Thameslink and St Pancras you may be liable to be charged a Penalty Fare.

London Travelwatch are already campaiging on the issue, and I'm sure they would be glad to receive your comments.

Buy it from London St Pancras instead. The fare is the same.

I don't agree that this is the case. The National Fares Manual NFM 05 CD does quote the £32 fare when asked for St Pancras - Portsmouth Harbour, but clicking on that fare shows that it is for a ticket from London Terminals, which is not valid via Farringdon.

The journey planners show a £38 fare and I would expect that to be the fare charged at St Pancras booking office. I would expect the ticket to say LONDON ST PANCRS to PORTSMOUTH HBR route + ANY PERMITTED.

 

[Magicake]

Twice since PAYG was introduced across National Rail I have needed to use the platform validators at London Bridge and none of them were operational - both times I had to go out and back in through the barrier. It seems quite absurd to me that they are deactivated as soon as they would become useful for so many more people

 

[clagmonster]

There is no fare from St Pancras to Portsmouth, so presumably the correct fare you should be sold is a Zone U1* Londn-Portsmouth ticket. However, a saver return from Kentish Town-Portsmouth is cheaper, priced at £37.40. The restriction of this ticket does not prohibit break of journey, so my advice would be to purchase an over distance excess for your return portion only, priced at half the difference between the two fares. This excess would be £1.70. You would be able to end your return journey short at St Pancras.

 

[dan_atki]

Twice since PAYG was introduced across National Rail I have needed to use the platform validators at London Bridge and none of them were operational - both times I had to go out and back in through the barrier. It seems quite absurd to me that they are deactivated as soon as they would become useful for so many more people

I presume the idea of these were because of FCC accepting Oyster on Kentish Town - Elephant & Castle/London Bridge and people changing onto these services at LBG would find it easier using a platform validator.

I don't think the issue of combining paper tickets with Oyster was seriously thought through when Oyster PAYG was extended throughout the zones and as I have said numerous times in the past, it is useful only for people who travel solely within the zones.

 

[John @ home]

a saver return from Kentish Town-Portsmouth is cheaper, priced at £37.40.

£35.40, I think.

This excess would be £1.70.

Agreed.

 

[prd101]

thanks everyone. the 'swiping out and swiping in again' at somewhere like London Bridge is what I suspected.

Interested by the idea of an excess to St Pancras - but would ticket offices realistically know what I meant by this, I guess they'd probably just want to sell me a Zone 1 ticket?

I'd considered tickets starting at Finsbury Park or Kentish Town before. Would I be right in thinking that these tickets would include both types of cross London travel, ie: access out from the tube at St Pancras (having come from Waterloo) OR, travel on FCC from the south then exiting at St Pancras? If so then it sounds like the ideal tickets to have because I can travel either way across London.

(This is useful to know because Southern Trains connecting to FCC would be easier for this journey if SW Trains had engineering works on the Portsmouth to Waterloo line, or if I travel with a bike from the south to St Pancras, which i sometimes do and so want to avoid the tube).

 

[John @ home]

I'd considered tickets starting at Finsbury Park or Kentish Town before. Would I be right in thinking that these tickets would include both types of cross London travel, ie: access out from the tube at St Pancras (having come from Waterloo) OR, travel on FCC from the south then exiting at St Pancras?

Yes..