London Midland - Great Easter Rail Sale!

[mickey]

As I said, why pay more for less, if traveling for leisure from the Midlands go for WSMR, best value for money, if people are looking for a journey that they can enjoy and have a meal on then go for WSMR, its not £6 but with LM you'll get what you pay for: sod all
[...]
I live in Birmingham myself and would rather do the extra 30 or so mins and pay the few bob extra and go for the better journey

You would? Great, suit yourself. The problem, and what you don't seem to get, is that other people don't agree with you. Other people have different value systems from you; other people put different emphases on the cost/time/luxury evaluations. This is one of the ways competition on the railway has been a success: it allows people to choose the service that most suits them. Now all we need is for you and some others to accept with a little more politesse their right to do so.

 

[37401]

Maybe I should start every post with PERSONAL OPINION as it's not clear apparently

 

[mickey]

Maybe I should start every post with PERSONAL OPINION as it's not clear apparently

There's a difference between simply expressing one's opinion and doing it in such a way that makes other people feel stupid or inferior for holding a different one.

 

[Daimler]

Meh, Desiros Vs Pendos its debatable but I find ill wish I did the pendo when all 50 odd of them pass me on the fast on the way to London.

If LM layed on their 321s I would consider it but, still rather have Mk3s over a unit

I'm sorry? As far as I'm concerned the 321s are very nearly the nastiest, most ill-designed, uncomfortable, unpleasant, unwelcoming, and rotten trains on the network! If a 321 comes in on my train, I almost invariably let it go to catch a 350.

Noisy whining motors, rattling, draughty doors, hopper windows that mysteriously manage to give people on the other side of the aisle a massive and unpleasant gale while the person below the window (who most likely has opened it) feels no difference whatsoever, window/seat alignment that can only be beaten in terms of shoddiness by Pendolinos, seats so low that you can't see out of the windows when you're lucky enough to get one, frequently inactive heating (and lack of air-con in summer), etc.

As you can probably tell, I really don't like them, and never have. The day LM ordered the 350/2s was a good day...

 

[jon0844]

I don't know if this'd be much use to ye, given that many passengers would find it to be a painfully slow connection...But a wireless access point, a PC configured as a network server, and a USB GPRS dongle on an unlimited data plan would at least provide dial-up quality connections for roughly 25 passengers at once for a very low cost.

These days, I'd go with one of these: http://www.novatelwireless.com/inde...nt&view=category&layout=blog&id=75&Itemid=622

Although they only allow 5 users at any time, but it's a 3G + HSPA modem with Wi-Fi router in something the size of a mobile phone.

As Yorkie says, no TOC would use either of these solutions - although the system used on EC is fairly similar to what you've said in reality - but it's an option for yourself. If you're traveling as a group and you often need Internet access (whatever happened to talking to each other?!) then you could share one MiFi between multiple people/devices.

I have one, and at home I get 2Mbps down and 1.76Mbps up - which is more than double what I'd get with my ADSL service on the uplink!

 

[87015]

I'm sorry? As far as I'm concerned the 321s are very nearly the nastiest, most ill-designed, uncomfortable, unpleasant, unwelcoming, and rotten trains on the network! If a 321 comes in on my train, I almost invariably let it go to catch a 350.

And I think 350/2s are the most uncomfortable trains to have been imposed on Southern WCML users since electrification (if not before.) 350/1s are good (but need to be in pairs at nearly all times), 321s distinctly average, 350/2s very poor. Which just goes to show.... 310s however, were very good.

Given that LM appear to have introduced SRT/Performance allowance so that the trains now timings that a donkey and cart could keep to on the semis, a bit more comfort in the 350/2s would be very welcome.

 

[sarniasiren]

Thanks for the post re LM.
My wife is to visit her sister in Eastbourne.
We live at Euxton, near Chorley and when I looked the other day it was £60 return.
Using LM and despite having to travel to Liverpool trip booked for under £20 with her railcard, dosnt qualify for the young persons one though!
Cost from Liverpool £6.60 to London, great value.
As we were on a roll looked at Southern Trains for the London to Eastbourne and booked singles at £2 each way!

Nearly as good value as the Megatrain we have used from Preston to Glasgow at £1 each way, great!

 

[37401]

And I think 350/2s are the most uncomfortable trains to have been imposed on Southern WCML users since electrification (if not before.) 350/1s are good (but need to be in pairs at nearly all times), 321s distinctly average, 350/2s very poor. Which just goes to show.... 310s however, were very good.

Given that LM appear to have introduced SRT/Performance allowance so that the trains now timings that a donkey and cart could keep to on the semis, a bit more comfort in the 350/2s would be very welcome.

Pint for that post mate, yeah the 321s comment was my personal op as said I find the seats on 350s to be just rancid, the 30x and 31x classes were nice the ones on the cross city were nice as were the Scottish 304s shame more of them were not preserved, would be nice to have one on a tour to Euston
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
303 not 304

 

[Pumbaa]

And I think 350/2s are the most uncomfortable trains to have been imposed on Southern WCML users since electrification (if not before.) 350/1s are good (but need to be in pairs at nearly all times), 321s distinctly average, 350/2s very poor. Which just goes to show.... 310s however, were very good.

Given that LM appear to have introduced SRT/Performance allowance so that the trains now timings that a donkey and cart could keep to on the semis, a bit more comfort in the 350/2s would be very welcome.

I think the majority of punters disagree with you there. More 350s are the best thing to come from the new franchise. 350/2 gives plenty of seats to crush hour commuters in comfortable, air conditioned coaches with a PIS.

 

[jon0844]

Well, we've now got over 10 321s for FCC, which on the GN side doesn't know the meaning of air conditioning! As the warm weather approaches (maybe), it's going to be the usual fun to look forward to!

But, while standard is nothing special, I do like FC on the 321s. I'm not saying it's as good or better than anything else, but it's fine for what it is. Larger, more comfortable seats, and leg room.

 

[Dreadnought]

on a normal day you can go from Birmingham to London and you have the choice of 4 operators, 1 is over priced, 1 takes forever and has horrible stock, the other 2 yes not the fastest but better than the first 2 and when evergreen is finished and Chiltern get their 67s Loco hauled service from Snow hill/Moor st there will be no competition.

LM may aswell throw in the towel now

That is great for Birmingham but what if you live south of Birmingham on the WCML. There are only 2 service providers with one of them only serving Coventry, Rugby and MKC. For most people on this route LM is the only way to get to London or Birmingham.

Lets hope that towel stays firmly in their corner

 

[Broken Viking]

I'm having issues trying to book a ticket from Stoke (to Hereford).
It won't give me the £6.60 from Stoke (or Longport, Kidsgrove, etc), and if I put it from Crewe, it only offers me trains via Shrewsbury.

LM mentioned further up thread that they don't have pricing powers on all of their routes, and it's those other operator priced routes that'll be exempt from LM promos (Though that's not LM's fault).

I just tried a few queries on the LM booking engine and got the same conclusion as ye. AFAIK, Hereford is right in the middle of ATW land...So best of luck trying to get a reasonable fare between Brum and Hereford! hock:
(That said though: Try poking at fares to see how far ye can go on the LM promo - Remembering that it's only valid for journeys starting before 18th April - Then go the rest of the way on a CDR! )

These days, I'd go with one of these: http://www.novatelwireless.com/inde...nt&view=category&layout=blog&id=75&Itemid=622
Although they only allow 5 users at any time, but it's a 3G + HSPA modem with Wi-Fi router in something the size of a mobile phone.

Ahh...Those portable APs are useful for general access to a GPRS connection, but what I have in mind would require a system that could be configured, customised and programmed as necessary...Hence my mention of a server. As one of the experiments involves caching frequently requested data (I.E: The Google logo, URCHIN.JS and other static documents) on the server itself to see if it really shifts a lot of load off of the connection (Giving the feel of a 10Mbps connection, despite real bandwidth per user being about 32kb/s!) I don't think that a portable AP like that would be much use.
Also...Take a peek in 2600 Magazine (Vol XXVI nr. 4) for an interesting article on portable wi-fi networks that I wrote a while back! )

I have one, and at home I get 2Mbps down and 1.76Mbps up - which is more than double what I'd get with my ADSL service on the uplink!

If my theoretical musings and calculations are correct, my system could offer pseudo bandwidth (The apparent bandwidth observed by the user) of up to 26mbps, depending on what it is they're requesting!

That's assuming - Of course - That I manage to build, configure and commission such a fiendish piece of hardware before my journey begins!

 

[jon0844]

The MiFi itself supports 7.2 down and 5.76 up. You can block ports but that's about it. It's merely designed for personal use, as against having it as an open hotspot.

That said, I am sure Novatel Wireless would be quite capable of building a device that could have no limit on users, but offer the necessary traffic shaping/port blocking/data throttling etc. That's if they saw a market (i.e. the railway operators, plus long distance coaches etc).

Many coaches already offer Wi-Fi, but I'm not sure how that's set up. That's probably a rackmount PC+modem+Wi-Fi router, which could EASILY be replaced with a MiFi without the user restriction.

There's the small matter of the cost of mobile data though! You'd have to charge people for it, or else include it in the cost of every single ticket sold.

 

[87015]

I think the majority of punters disagree with you there. More 350s are the best thing to come from the new franchise. 350/2 gives plenty of seats to crush hour commuters in comfortable, air conditioned coaches with a PIS.

I don't deny its a matter of opinions, but I'd rather have a seat that has some padding and can seat three abreast without everyone having to be Kate Moss than worrying about aircon which only matters for a couple of weeks a year and freezes you all winter and I don't gain any benefit from a PIS.

The answer of course, is to head for FC as they only check tickets south of Northampton once a year or sit in the driving cars of the Southern...

 

[TsLeng]

When I meant I love the Class 350, its the 350/1 that I was talking about

Of course the 350/2 will not be as comfy as a Pendo because of 5 row seating.

Well, I just hope that the train I am getting on will be a 350/1!! haha.

I don't know if its gonna be busy or not but I am looking at taking the 853 new street - euston service.
Its valid as off peak apparently since it arrives in London at 11++am
Fingers crossed it won't be busy.

 

[royaloak]

and I don't gain any benefit from a PIS.

I always feel "relieved" after one!

 

[Green Lane]

Hi All,

First post here. I have been taking offpeak daytrips from Liverpool to Euston but in recent years I've only used the fast Virgin services from Liverpool or Chester, with advanced booking to usually get it down to either £26 or £22 if really lucky.

Obviously this current London Midland offer seems even much better and despite being slower as someone mentioned, not really slower than the old BR service as I remember it.

First Question I have is, on the LM website, I see the Liverpool-London return is £10 but many here seem to be mentioning £6.60. May I ask what railcards people are using that apparently gives 33% off the ticket price? I used to have a young person's railcard back in the early '90s but I'm too old for one now.

Second question is are the LM services on the WCML likely to be overcrowded due to this offer? On passing the LM trains from a Pendo they never seem totally packed to me when looking into them, but with this offer on I guess they may be?

Anyone have any experiences of travelling with LM during these offers before?

My journeys are strictly leisure and I try to save as much on the ticket price as possible, due to repeated trips (it all adds up!)

Thanks very much for any possible info. Cheers.

 

[158757]

First Question I have is, on the LM website, I see the Liverpool-London return is £10 but many here seem to be mentioning £6.60. May I ask what railcards people are using that apparently gives 33% off the ticket price? I used to have a young person's railcard back in the early '90s but I'm too old for one now.

It's more than likely a Young Persons, these are now called 16-25 railcards and are available to 16-25 year olds as per the name! If you're over that, and under 60, the only railcard you can get that is relevant is a Family Railcard, and for that you need kids (and for them to travel with you!). So the £10 price is the correct one, this is without railcard discount.

Second question is are the LM services on the WCML likely to be overcrowded due to this offer? On passing the LM trains from a Pendo they never seem totally packed to me when looking into them, but with this offer on I guess they may be?

Not from my experience, I've never had to stand using LM, and when they ran a similar offer (great escape) which was unlimited days travel on LM for £10, the trains were quite busy but I managed to get a seat on all services, mostly table seats too.

Anyone have any experiences of travelling with LM during these offers before?

As above, always been fine, some guards might be a little confused by the ticket at first, but tend to recognise it after a closer look!

Hope this helps!

 

[Green Lane]

Hope this helps!

Yes that's great, very informative. Thanks very much for the speedy and helpful reply.

I may well try it out, this Sat or next. I don't at all mind changing at Stafford or Crewe, in fact I quite enjoy it, get a few casual photos in.

Even at £10, think it's an excellent offer. Not travelling with kids, so no railcard eligibility it seems.

Last time I travelled with London Midland was Redditch-Birmingham New Street. That was on a Saturday afternoon and the train was almost completely empty. Never used them on the WCML before though.

Cheers!

 

[158757]

It's a long time, take something to do! Also if you change at Stafford there is less of a wait and you cut out some of the journey time. I believe you're also allowed to change at Birmingham New Street, although I'd get someone else to confirm.

If you do the Liverpool Lime St-London Euston journey often, you can get a super off peak London Midland only return on a normal day for £24. These are highly restricted on weekdays, with the following conditions:

Not valid for travel on London
Midland services timed to
ARRIVE London Terminals before
1300.

Not valid for travel on
northbound London Midland
services timed to DEPART
London Terminals or any other
station, before 1030.

Not valid for travel on London
Midland services timed to
DEPART any station between
1630 and 1930 in either
direction (except for the 1829
London Euston to Crewe service
) unless a connecting
service is being used to
complete a journey begun at a
valid time.

but on weekends and bank holidays they are completely unrestricted time wise. The only condition being in all cases that you are only allowed to travel on London Midland services.

 

[Green Lane]

It's a long time, take something to do!

Thanks for the further info. Yes, it's a long time, but good that the journey is split up with a change of trains. Should break the monotony.

In the past (i.e. the '90s) I have travelled Liverpool-Euston with the inter-city journey taking even longer than this current LM "long range commuter" timetable states, but that was typically down to some compounded delays or some such. Seemed par for the course back then. Must admit things generally seem better nowadays.

Also if you change at Stafford there is less of a wait and you cut out some of the journey time. I believe you're also allowed to change at Birmingham New Street, although I'd get someone else to confirm.

Yes, the example return journey I selected on the site suggests changing at Stafford southbound and changing at Crewe northbound. Nice to have the New Street option available too, although the particular journeys I've been looking at on the LM site have apparently been tied into specific trains which appear to operate solely on the quicker Trent Valley Line.

If you do the Liverpool Lime St-London Euston journey often, you can get a super off peak London Midland only return on a normal day for £24. These are highly restricted on weekdays, with the following conditions:

Thanks for that. I may well find that useful. Nice to be able to take any LM train (within the conditions). Seems evening peak time lasts quite a long time. Always seems to be so at the London Terminals! I've also got a Bletchly trip planned this year too. As you say, such a ticket would really be handy at the Weekends/Bank Holidays.

Regards.

 

[mickey]

It's a long time, take something to do! Also if you change at Stafford there is less of a wait and you cut out some of the journey time. I believe you're also allowed to change at Birmingham New Street, although I'd get someone else to confirm.

Confirmed. It's operator-specific, not route-specific - hence it's also valid on routes out from BHM to Lichfield and Rugeley as well.

Changing is almost always better at Stafford - the only exception seems to be late-ish in the evening (New St.) and Sundays (Crewe). That's for the 'fastest' connection, of course - those who want to clock up routes can go whichever way they want.

Only 'advance' tickets are limited to specific trains; 'off-peak' and 'super off-peak' are flexible within their own peak-time restrictions.

 

[Green Lane]

Confirmed. It's operator-specific, not route-specific - hence it's also valid on routes out from BHM to Lichfield and Rugeley as well.

Changing is almost always better at Stafford - the only exception seems to be late-ish in the evening (New St.) and Sundays (Crewe). That's for the 'fastest' connection, of course - those who want to clock up routes can go whichever way they want.

Only 'advance' tickets are limited to specific trains; 'off-peak' and 'super off-peak' are flexible within their own peak-time restrictions.

Thanks for the info, I have some further questions.

Earlier this morning I booked a cheap London Midland "advance" return trip for this Saturday from Liverpool Lime Street to Euston for £10. Despite the longer journey times of this service, if all goes well I should get around seven hours in London. (I've already got a Merseyside "TRIO" season ticket, so never bother booking through tickets from Birkenhead stations.)

On the website when I booked, I selected to collect the tickets from Liverpool Lime Street (as I usually do), the website stated "collect on departure".

However, I always prefer to pick up the tickets before the day of departure to save time on the day. As I happen to work very close to Liverpool Lime Street Station, I will be passing near there both today and tomorrow at lunchtime. Is it worth me trying to collect the tickets today or tomorrow, or will they not be ready until the day of travel?

Also, is it OK to use the Virgin-branded ticket collection machines to pick up London Midland tickets? I think it is, but I've only ever collected Virgin train tickets before.

Finally, in the event of service disruptions/cancellations, I take it that with an advance ticket if I used alternative trains, I would need to purchase another ticket on the day as clearly my advance ticket would no longer be valid. In that case, is there any sort of re-imbursement for this?

Again, thanks very much for any possible info.

 

[Mojo]

Hi,

Note that this is not an Advance ticket, it is a special offer 'Web-only' ticket which can be used at any time it is valid, you are not tied to specific trains.[1]

Yes, you can collect the tickets from wherever you want, a few hours after you have bought them and can use any ToD-enabled ticket machine (one that has the option). The railways are not that un-joined-up!

[1] If you are using an Advance ticket for a journey in the future, note that if your journey by rail is delayed and you miss a connection then you are entitled to use it on the next appropriate service.

 

[Green Lane]

Hi,

Note that this is not an Advance ticket, it is a special offer 'Web-only' ticket which can be used at any time it is valid.

Yes, you can collect the tickets from wherever you want, a few hours after you have bought them and can use any ToD-enabled ticket machine (one that has the option). The railways are not that un-joined-up!

Thanks very much. I'm much happier that it is not an advance ticket. I initially thought it was, because when I printed out the booking details it listed specific trains that I had selected from the menu.

However, on checking my printout again, indeed I see you are correct, it says at the bottom "Valid outward and return on same day for off peak travel by the route/operator shown".

Thanks for that!

I booked my ticket before 8:00 am this morning, so I may try to collect it at around 2pm today. If that's too quick, then I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[TsLeng]

Yes, the Easter Promotion tickets are actually off-peak tickets.

So the return is actually valid up to a month after the departure.
I have booked my mine and will be collecting at the machine on the day of departure.

Off to London tomorrow for me!

 

[Green Lane]

Yes, the Easter Promotion tickets are actually off-peak tickets.

So the return is actually valid up to a month after the departure.
I have booked my mine and will be collecting at the machine on the day of departure.

Off to London tomorrow for me!

Good stuff, it's amazingly good value IMHO. I'd never thought I'd be able to do a 390 mile round trip or thereabouts for a tenner.

I do think the Virgin trains service cheapest advance bookings at £22 are good value too, given a 2:07 travel time from Liverpool to London, but they are restricted to specific trains and I've found you have to book about 6 to 8 weeks in advance to get reasonable train times at that price.

All things being equal, I'll happily take the longer journey time, for the cheaper ticket price and for the flexibility of an off-peak ticket and not having to book so far in advance.

 

[mickey]

I booked my ticket before 8:00 am this morning, so I may try to collect it at around 2pm today. If that's too quick, then I'll try again tomorrow.

Do let us know how you get on with this. The official line is that 2 hours after booking is fine but I've had problems with this before, especially at Lime St., so I'd be interested to know if it's working as it should.

Incidentally, re. your comment about ticket machine operators, there are no LM machines in Liverpool so you actually have no choice but to use the Virgin ones!

 

[London_Midland]

Thanks for all the advice people have been giving on the offer. For information, we haven't been suffering overcrowding so far, helped by the fact that the promotion covers the whole network, rather than being centred on one station (the only real drawback of the EMT Red Dot Days).

Just to refer to an earlier comment about first class and the choice of operators between Birmingham and London:

- I agree that the first class product is basic in its current format, but we are looking at ways in which it can be enhanced. Our first class fares from London are similar to the peak standard return on Chiltern, so it's not as if we charge a prohibitively high fare! At the end of the day, first class is just that little bit more relaxing and tranquil - and some people are prepared to pay for that.

- Regarding the choice of routes between Birmingham and London, different people prefer the different options. WSMR is an excellent product, but not convenient for some. Virgin is very quick, but some people don't like Pendolinos or can't justify the expense, especially if travelling at the last minute. Chiltern is also a good product, and is very convenient if you're travelling on the Snow Hill lines to connect. However, our service suits people who are arriving at New Street, or travelling from the Coventry line, and are more interested in price than speed. We're never going to be first choice for everyone, but as long as we provide a service appreciated by some, and we can make it pay, that's good enough for us!

Incidentally, please keep posting any journey examples that don't give the £10 return option. We're hoping to get them sorted for any future promotion.

David.

 

[Green Lane]

Do let us know how you get on with this. The official line is that 2 hours after booking is fine but I've had problems with this before, especially at Lime St., so I'd be interested to know if it's working as it should.

I got to the station at around 2:15pm. I put my card into the Virgin ticket machine and when it said "remove card", a message came up "No Information Found". So I assumed I was too early. However it was purely my fault, I'd simply put my card in too quickly after the lady in front of me had walked away from the machine.

I put my card in again and this time I got the option to "collect tickets". I pressed it, and the tickets came out. Didn't need to enter any booking confirmation number this time. Clearly they are unresticted off-peak tickets not tied into a specific train, so that's great.

Incidentally, re. your comment about ticket machine operators, there are no LM machines in Liverpool so you actually have no choice but to use the Virgin ones!

Indeed, there are only two of them. Normally they are quite quiet but I have seen queues there in the mornings in the past. I don't like leaving getting my tickets until the last minute, in case I arrive at the station slightly late due to any possible issues on the Wirral Line.