Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[samuelmorris]

I assume ironing boards won't be fitted

Yes they will.

The ABDO system is not planned to be operational from the day the units are introduced, but will come later.

Fair enough, I did think that seemed a bit ambitious.

 

[coppercapped]

Funny how the first unit is near completion but wont be delivered until early next year? Doesn’t sound very complete to me

Not sure about the 701s being driver operation only. Creates more fair dodgers if you ask me

'Driver only operation' (DOO) is not necessarily the same as 'one person operation' (OPO) as used on London Underground where the driver really is the only member of staff on the train.

In other words DOO does not preclude a second (or more) member(s) of staff being on the train.

 

[Ethano92]

Not sure about the 701s being driver operation only. Creates more fair dodgers if you ask me

Not much of an issue for the majority of the 701s routes unless the guard is given the equipment to check contactless payment, the current guards are non commercial anyway, I don't think they check tickets.

 

[43096]

Indeed the 701 will be less delayed than anything SWT did this decade...
(The only one I can't remember precisely is the 450s in the previous decade)

So that was SWT’s fault and this is now Bombardier’s fault is it?

 

[Goldfish62]

Not much of an issue for the majority of the 701s routes unless the guard is given the equipment to check contactless payment, the current guards are non commercial anyway, I don't think they check tickets.

Correct. They have no revenue responsibilities. It's quite normal not to see or hear the guard for the entire journey, not helped on 458s by the crap PA and dearth of guard's door panels.

 

[hwl]

So that was SWT’s fault and this is now Bombardier’s fault is it?

No, I'm just point out that everything rolling stock on the franchise since privatisation has been delayed and this is nothing new. It doesn't matter whether it is SWR/T or Alstom, Siemens, Wabtec, Vossloh Kneipe, Bombarider in SW land.
Being 9-18months late is normal not just in the UK but in quite few places across Europe (where they aren't super vague on entry into service to begin with)

Lots of people seem to believe rolling delays are new things, that it is all SWR/ BT's fault, they should be stripped/banned from the industry immediately and the sky is going to fall down. It isn't, it's normal - the rolling stock and franchises industry has an optimism bias issue, more "this won't go exactly to plan" needs to be part of the plan. The DfT franchising game is also part of the issue in that new rolling stock ASAP is needed for the bid financial model work.

 

[coppercapped]

No, I'm just point out that everything rolling stock on the franchise since privatisation has been delayed and this is nothing new. It doesn't matter whether it is SWR/T or Alstom, Siemens, Wabtec, Vossloh Kneipe, Bombarider in SW land.
Being 9-18months late is normal not just in the UK but in quite few places across Europe (where they aren't super vague on entry into service to begin with)

Lots of people seem to believe rolling delays are new things, that it is all SWR/ BT's fault, they should be stripped/banned from the industry immediately and the sky is going to fall down. It isn't, it's normal - the rolling stock and franchises industry has an optimism bias issue, more "this won't go exactly to plan" needs to be part of the plan. The DfT franchising game is also part of the issue in that new rolling stock ASAP is needed for the bid financial model work.

Quite so...and the revered 'Deltics' were a year late into service.

Who remembers that now?

 

[pompeyfan]

Richard Clinnick has posted a picture of a fully constructed 701 on test on his twitter feed. Currently unable to link correctly as per forum rules

 

[387star]

Richard Clinnick has posted a picture of a fully constructed 701 on test on his twitter feed. Currently unable to link correctly as per forum rules

Wonder what seats they have

 

[Goldfish62]

Wonder what seats they have

The computer images showed ironing boards.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm pretty sure ironing boards had already been confirmed, though I forget where.

 

[Mikey C]

Ironing boards on commuter trains operating on relatively short journeys are probably acceptable, if not desirable

 

[AlexNL]

Richard Clinnick has posted a picture of a fully constructed 701 on test on his twitter feed. Currently unable to link correctly as per forum rules

I'll do it for you

Caption: A South Western Railway Class 701 built by Bombardier Rail UK on test at Litchurch Lane.

Photo/tweet by Richard Clinnick, on Twitter, 16 Oct 2019 @ 13:42

 

[pompeyfan]

I'll do it for you

Caption: A South Western Railway Class 701 built by Bombardier Rail UK on test at Litchurch Lane.

Photo/tweet by Richard Clinnick, on Twitter, 16 Oct 2019 @ 13:42

thank you! I was hoping someone would get the hint

 

[Ethano92]

In the same way the 707s are more reliable than other Desiro cities, let's hope these are more reliable than other Aventuras we currently have in service.

 

[Meerkat]

It’s got angry eyes!

 

[Bessie]

It’s good to see a 701 completed. Have Bombardier finished this one “out of sync” to provide SWR with a demonstrator to play with? I thought they had a backlog of other units to finish first before moving on to 701s or is there more than one production line at Derby?

 

[Harbon 1]

It’s good to see a 701 completed. Have Bombardier finished this one “out of sync” to provide SWR with a demonstrator to play with? I thought they had a backlog of other units to finish first before moving on to 701s or is there more than one production line at Derby?

There are six production lines

 

[Goldfish62]

In the same way the 707s are more reliable than other Desiro cities, let's hope these are more reliable than other Aventuras we currently have in service.

Hopefully Wimbledon will work its magic on them.

 

[Goldfish62]

It’s good to see a 701 completed. Have Bombardier finished this one “out of sync” to provide SWR with a demonstrator to play with? I thought they had a backlog of other units to finish first before moving on to 701s or is there more than one production line at Derby?

That construction of the 701s started several months ago has been fairly widely reported, together with photos.

 

[hwl]

It’s good to see a 701 completed. Have Bombardier finished this one “out of sync” to provide SWR with a demonstrator to play with? I thought they had a backlog of other units to finish first before moving on to 701s or is there more than one production line at Derby?

Bombardier did all the first couple LO, Anglia, SWR unit out of sync so there is time to learn before the main production runs start.

The first SWR unit body parts were photographed and reported on here in January.

As other operators recent experience has show a single units to play with isn't particularly helpful, the minimum number is actually around 6.

 

[Goldfish62]

So, based on SWR stating that the programme is 12 months late, it should be acceptance of the first unit in June and service in September. That gives about eight months for testing and acceptance.

 

[hwl]

So, based on SWR stating that the programme is 12 months late, it should be acceptance of the first unit in June and service in September. That gives about eight months for testing and acceptance.

The question is quite what they are describing as 12months late...
One would suspect that the introduction plan would change a bit as everything isn't just shifted to the right.
e.g. With Crossrail production largely complete (just the last complete unit left at Derby and some of the extra intermediate 2 cars left to complete less than a fortnights production) and all the 192x LU SSR train rewires for Thales CBTC now done, the capacity at Derby available for production for Anglia and SWR is now higher than it was planned to be a year ago hence expect a quicker delivery rate than was planned for originally...

 

[43096]

The question is quite what they are describing as 12months late...
One would suspect that the introduction plan would change a bit as everything isn't just shifted to the right.
e.g. With Crossrail production largely complete (just the last complete unit left at Derby and some of the extra intermediate 2 cars left to complete less than a fortnights production) and all the 192x LU SSR train rewires for Thales CBTC now done, the capacity at Derby available for production for Anglia and SWR is now higher than it was planned to be a year ago hence expect a quicker delivery rate than was planned for originally...

It’s not just about production capacity, though. It needs resources in terms of commissioning and crew training as well, which may not be readily available for an enhanced delivery rate, as the teams would be sized for the original plan.

 

[hwl]

It’s not just about production capacity, though. It needs resources in terms of commissioning and crew training as well, which may not be readily available for an enhanced delivery rate, as the teams would be sized for the original plan.

Precisely - there will be a mountain of stock to store but there will be no shortage of units for training once they get signed off. Also no rush for units to enter service till they are properly snagged.

A big bottleneck on the 700 introduction was unit availability which limited training opportunities and training rates (given paths needed for unit testing). With some more recent introductions this hasn't been a problem with large quantities of stock available post ORR sign off happening.

The reality is that the expected bottlenecks won't be the same as the actual ones. Finding a "quiet" bit of 3rd rail track to do the unit mileage running on out of the way will be key.

 

[Goldfish62]

The reality is that the expected bottlenecks won't be the same as the actual ones. Finding a "quiet" bit of 3rd rail track to do the unit mileage running on out of the way will be key.

Staines to Reading/Windsor was used for the 458/5 and 707.

 

[pompeyfan]

Staines to Reading/Windsor was used for the 458/5 and 707.

im surprised there isn’t the capacity between Woking at Basingstoke on the slows or down to Havant.

 

[Malcolmffc]

Great to see a 701 running at last. Can’t wait for the 455s to go.

 

[Goldfish62]

Great to see a 701 running at last. Can’t wait for the 455s to go.

According to someone with apparent insider knowledge on Facebook Reading/Windsor services will go over first, removing the 458s first, then 455 and 456.

 

[swt_passenger]

According to someone with apparent insider knowledge on Facebook Reading/Windsor services will go over first, removing the 458s first, then 455 and 456.

707s last then? Not that long ago people had them going first. Nobody must want them...