First Rail Replacement

[embers25]

Had the "pleasure" of using first rail replacement co-ordinated services yesterday. There was no staff at Carnforth to ensure the bus waited for the train or to help passengers. I had the pleasure of using the bus for the 25 min journey from Carnforth to Windermere. I won't say who the coach operator used was or the time of the bus for reasons that will become clear.

The driver greeted us by asking if we knew how to get into the car park at Oxenholme. He then forced everyone to carry their luggage inside the coach because he didn't know how to operate the luggage lockers underneath! Given he didn't have a sat-nav we asked if he needed ours and he said no. On leaving Carnforth the driver got lost immediately and at the first roundabout completely missed the exit for the M6. No problem we thought as we saw from the sat nav that the non-motorway route was a mere 3 minutes longer. So when he asked which was to go we started directing him using the sat nav which was along the A-road route. We got later and later as he never went above 35mph as he said he'd wasn't familiar with driving a coach and said he doesn't like driving on country roads (on a bus to Windermere!). Along the way we reach some roadworks on a hill. The first time the light goes to green we almost stall and then go backwards almost hitting the car behind. Finally on the third atempt to hill start we made it through the roadworks. 15 mins late we finally direct him into Oxenholme. It's a sharp 160 degree turn into the car park and the driver wasn't confident of making it so stopped outside the car park instead. We then had to push the door open as he couldn't get what he thought was the door switch to work.

Saying that it could've been worse as the previous coach to arrive at Oxenholme, our next driver informed us, had decided to take the corner into the station too fast and ended up hitting the metal post at the entrance ripping the side of the coach off...the damage was monumental and apparently approx >£12000 worth!

Surely if you contract a coach company you should make sure that their drivers aren't nervous about driving their coach first. Hardly as Weavaway put on their destination blinds when working for SWT "what I call great rail replacement!"

 

[Broken Viking]

That's kind of concerning, if ye ask me. Now, I've never had a PSV licence in my life (I applied to Stagecoach a while ago, but they wouldn't take me on) and my bus driving experience is limited to three-pointing a 40' Plaxton Paramount in a totally clear yard...But I dare say - At an outsiders guess, mind - That if Id've been in the drivers seat on that run, I might've done a slightly better job! hock:

Did the driver in question seem to be very unfamiliar wirth the vehicle itself, particularly the size of it? It's possible that he might have a PSV licence and simply be used to mini coaches (Caetano Optimos and the like)...But thy post above suggests to me that he might've either passed his PSV test very shortly beforehand, or might not even have had a PSV licence! hock:

 

[sheff1]

Surely if you contract a coach company you should make sure that their drivers aren't nervous about driving their coach first.

Indeed.

As most rail franchisees are 'bus bandits' (Copyright Roger Ford) it seems barely credible that they hire in these sort of cowboys rather than using their own professional drivers, but apparently the golden rule is 'cheapest quote always wins' and sod the customer.

Never forget the trip I had from Newcastle to Darlington about 3/4 years ago. The coach driver wore a T shirt with 'MAD' emblazoned on the front - he was, and tried to organise a sing song whilst hurtling down the A1 hock:

 

[Aictos]

Hang on a second, has it occured to anyone that the coach firm might not be local and thus even if the driver had all the First supplied documents, they wouldn't nessurily know the route ie I used a bus and driver from Southend running Arlesey to Hitchin.

Secondly, even if he wasn't local, his firm should have supplied him with all the paperwork.

I do agree though that the actions of the driver was wrong and I suggest you take up your complaint with Customer Services.

I must state though that not all rail replacement services operated by First are as bad as you described.

 

[jon0844]

Drivers should be given 'pace notes' and learn these in advance. Things can go wrong for short notice bookings, but I've had bad experiences even on scheduled engineering work. It is certainly the case that buses won't all be operated by the big boys like First or National Express (even if they have clipboards with a giant First logo - which could just be the material given to them). FCC doesn't exclusively use First buses and drivers, and Wagn used to use First drivers when it was National Express. Cost will obviously be a factor, but so will availability.

Mind you, for every bad experience there have been many more good ones. I've had bus drivers having to reverse because they went down a road with a width restriction, and others with the driver asking passengers for directions, but not recently. Mind you, I tend to avoid buses wherever possible by taking another route, going earlier or not going at all.

As a season ticket holder, I lose out when I can't travel on a weekend but I'd guess the TOC loses a lot more because many people won't travel at all - and therefore won't buy a ticket.

 

[jopsuk]

I've helped a driver with directions when he's got lost before. Another time, I'd got a "slow" bus (as it was timed to meet the train I actually wanted- saved sitting around on a platform- plus the "fast" bus was pretty full), and we arrived at the station to meet the train to find, according to the bus coordinator there, that the "fast" hadn't turned up. We had briefly seen the other bus behind us- we overtook it on the way south out of Cambridge along Hills road (the RRS was to Audley End, we were going to Shelford first) and he'd followed us into Shelford. Driver and I reckoned the "fast" driver must have accidentally ended up on the M11 southbound at Duxford- after which the first turn off is Stansted!

 

[royaloak]

Some of the comments are nieve in the extreme, half the time the driver is given a coach and told where to report and that is it, no notes or information at all, been there done that!

 

[Aictos]

Some of the comments are nieve in the extreme, half the time the driver is given a coach and told where to report and that is it, no notes or information at all, been there done that!

I agree, which is why I said above that the driver might not even be local so may not be aware of the route needed which is even more important that they get the notes.

I've used coaches between Stevenage and Hertford before with the driver insisting on using a narrow back road to get though Watton at Stone even there there's hardly any room.

 

[jopsuk]

royaloak- I think most of us are aware that drivers are often non-local; that really does not excuse the major issues that such non-local drivers can cause. It is, after all, a big disruption to the journey to have to go by RRS; if the driver gets lost because he doesn't know the route, this compounds the misery for passengers. Rail companies could do more to help the drivers.

As an aside to the different companies used- I'm sure I've seen Cambus (Stagecoach Cambridge) busses on FCC replacements.

 

[starrymarkb]

FGW here seem to either do most work in house via FDC/Truronian or contract the local companies. But Exeter based companies still might struggle if sent more farflung parts of the county

 

[brompton rail]

If the rail replacement coach driver does NOT know his/her way there is NO EXCUSE! His company is paid to carry rail passengers who have paid well over the odds to use a bus (instead of a train).

Would anyone think it OK for the train driver to ask passengers which way it was to the destination, or if anyone had a track diagram that showed signals and junctions?

 

[driver9000]

As a former Rail Replacement driver I worked for an operator who were contracted by Fraser Eagle we were each given a fully detailed information pack produced by Fraser Eagle which contained guidance notes for reaching each station but these maps only detailed the locality of the station inbetween stations we were allowed to travel a route we decided upon. Oxenholme station is a very difficult station to access from either direction if you come off the M6 at J37 as Frasers suggested (they obviously never checked the route) it was a single track steeply graded road so I always opted to approach from Kendal which although longer mileage wise it time was the same thanks to higher speeds which is the direction taken by the original posters coach, the turn into the car park from that direction is a very tight turn and the car park is tight is its not been cleared. The turn could not be completed in a single move in or out of the station car park.

To suggest the driver didnt have a licence is wrong as he will have had one but may have been used to driving service buses if he didnt have a licence then not knowing the way is the least of his worries as driving a PSV with paying passenger without a licence is illegal, the story as written suggests he was bunged the keys and waved off on his merry way. The first time I drove a coach I was nervous and shyed away from driving them for a long time, especially split shift manual boxes.

Drivers are not always given notes beforehand and indeed may not be local - we had Scottish firms running Preston-Carlisle and they couldnt even get out of Preston!! I actually found some of the notes I was given to be wrong as they were trying to send buses along a road with a low bridge and the wrong way up a one way street. Drivers could be taken off their booked work to cover another route, remember coach drivers are not fixed to routes as stage bus drivers are, I was sent to Edinburgh without notes one afternoon by the controller at Carlisle station (I already knew the route though). Carnforth to Windermere is pretty straight forward involving mostly the same road between Kendal and Windermere save for diving into Burneside and Stavely, I know which route I'd have taken.