Could banning cars from City Centres work?

[PaulMc7]

Would love to know what people think regarding city centres and banning the likes of cars and having stricter taxi policies.

Personally if public transport would benefit from less congestion I'd be all for a ban. Congestion is a major issue in Glasgow where I'm based and not enough is done to tackle it. Would it help get people onto public transport if congestion wasn't an issue? Yes absolutely imo as as big reasons people don't use it are cost and reliability.

 

[SquireBev]

It certainly wouldn't do Birmingham any harm.

 

[Sprinter107]

Would love to know what people think regarding city centres and banning the likes of cars and having stricter taxi policies.

Personally if public transport would benefit from less congestion I'd be all for a ban. Congestion is a major issue in Glasgow where I'm based and not enough is done to tackle it. Would it help get people onto public transport if congestion wasn't an issue? Yes absolutely imo as as big reasons people don't use it are cost and reliability.

It's not just the cost and reliability. Although I drive, I also use public transport regularly. Why would somebody give up the safety of their car to else.on a bus where anti social behaviour is increasing. The smoking of cannabis and other substances is becoming more frequent on many buses in the area I travel in.

 

[PaulMc7]

It's not just the cost and reliability. Although I drive, I also use public transport regularly. Why would somebody give up the safety of their car to else.on a bus where anti social behaviour is increasing. The smoking of cannabis and other substances is becoming more frequent on many buses in the area I travel in.

Yeah definitely. Things like that really need to be dealt with more effectively too

 

[Bletchleyite]

It certainly wouldn't do Birmingham any harm.

This all depends what you mean by the city centre. A fairly large chunk of Birmingham city centre is pedestrianised anyway. Whereas almost none of central London is.

 

[adamedwards]

City centres should be about people walking and cycling first, then buses, deliveries and the disabled. Any other car travel should be stopped. Interesting to note that the walking distances from car parks at out of town shopping centres are comperable with major areas of city centres. People will walk at the out of town centres, but the inner cities are often more hostile with too many cars. Get rid of the cars and things will change. It works in other cities in Europe.

One issue in London is the Burroughs persuing different strategies (e.g. Camden is pro cycling and Westminster is not) which then makes it very difficult for the strategic Mayors (similar issue in Manchester where Manchester city is still keen on big roads rather than active travel, which doesn't help Andy Burnham as Mayor.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

One issue in London is the Burroughs persuing different strategies (e.g. Camden is pro cycling and Westminster is not) which then makes it very difficult for the strategic Mayors (similar issue in Manchester where Manchester city is still keen on big roads rather than active travel, which doesn't help Andy Burnham as Mayor.)

I've never entirely understood the London Borough structure - things are devolved to them that in any other country would be a whole-city matter. The way it works is rather like if they devolved things like road maintenance from MK Unitary Authority to the Parishes - rather silly and wasteful.

 

[PeterC]

Depends what you mean by "centre". In London there is extensive public housing between the Euston Road and the Thames. Should these people be denied mobility because they can't afford a nice house in Metroland?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depends what you mean by "centre". In London there is extensive public housing between the Euston Road and the Thames. Should these people be denied mobility because they can't afford a nice house in Metroland?

Possibly, yes. You choose to live in a city centre, you choose to live without a car. It's an encumbrance in central London to own one, anyway, and if you need one for a short time there are the car clubs. Want a car? Live in the suburbs.

 

[SquireBev]

Possibly, yes. You choose to live in a city centre, you choose to live without a car. It's an encumbrance in central London to own one, anyway, and if you need one for a short time there are the car clubs. Want a car? Live in the suburbs.

Spot on.

As a society, we need to grow out of the notion that everyone needs a car.

 

[PaulMc7]

Spot on.

As a society, we need to grow out of the notion that everyone needs a car.

I think the problem is that people feel pressure to have one because it seems like businesses want you to be able to drive when you apply for even office jobs these days. The job quite clearly doesn't need one yet employers want someone who drives anyway. Definitely need to get out of the notion everywhere though

 

[SquireBev]

I think the problem is that people feel pressure to have one because it seems like businesses want you to be able to drive when you apply for even office jobs these days. The job quite clearly doesn't need one yet employers want someone who drives anyway. Definitely need to get out of the notion everywhere though

Oh, don't I know it. I went for an interview once with a local authority for a fairly lowly admin job - half way through they started talking about driving between sites to deliver the internal mail, and looked utterly gobsmacked when I said I didn't drive, even asking me how I'd managed to get there for the interview. Apparently nobody had noticed the bus stop outside.

 

[PaulMc7]

Oh, don't I know it. I went for an interview once with a local authority for a fairly lowly admin job - half way through they started talking about driving between sites to deliver the internal mail, and looked utterly gobsmacked when I said I didn't drive, even asking me how I'd managed to get there for the interview. Apparently nobody had noticed the bus stop outside.

That's crazy haha. There's a place like that I seen job for literally 2mins from my house and combined there are also 26 buses an hour off peak let alone at peak yet they still want someone who drives

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's crazy haha. There's a place like that I seen job for literally 2mins from my house and combined there are also 26 buses an hour off peak let alone at peak yet they still want someone who drives

I think my contract requires me to drive (would have to check) but I very, very rarely drive on company business. Public transport first if it's an option.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think my contract requires me to drive (would have to check) but I very, very rarely drive on company business. Public transport first if it's an option.

I think it's necessary for jobs that require it but even to be a bus driver you don't necessarily need a car here, same with train drivers etc too. A lot of the jobs definitely don't need one but we definitely need to lean towards public transport

 

[Sprinter107]

It's all well and good saying that people who live in city centres should be denied cars, but until the problem of anti social behaviour is tackled, as I posted earlier, people wont use buses. Many of the people I work with have been put off buses for that reason. Now, I've always used buses and prefer them to cars, but even I think twice sometimes. Anti social behaviour is now not confined to evening services. A friend recently came across from Amsterdam for a few days, and was absolutely dismayed at what he witnessed on board 2 of our buses, ones that were well loaded too. He said never again did he want to travel on one. Until anti social behaviour is the exception rather than the norm, then I think it's quite unreasonable to give up the safety of their car, and have to travel with that.

 

[PaulMc7]

It's all well and good saying that people who live in city centres should be denied cars, but until the problem of anti social behaviour is tackled, as I posted earlier, people wont use buses. Many of the people I work with have been put off buses for that reason. Now, I've always used buses and prefer them to cars, but even I think twice sometimes. Anti social behaviour is now not confined to evening services. A friend recently came across from Amsterdam for a few days, and was absolutely dismayed at what he witnessed on board 2 of our buses, ones that were well loaded too. He said never again did he want to travel on one. Until anti social behaviour is the exception rather than the norm, then I think it's quite unreasonable to give up the safety of their car, and have to travel with that.

Definitely agree with this. No stranger to antisocial behaviour considering I'm in Glasgow and we have major problems with it. The worst things I've seen are all earlier in the day. Even things like drinking alcohol etc I've seen loads of times and that isn't ever dealt with either

 

[Sprinter107]

In fairness to our bus company, I think they are proactive in trying to stamp out this behaviour. But it's a large company with many routes and buses, which makes it that much more difficult. But until they do, people are apprehensive.

 

[geoffk]

Maybe the best route is to tackle "private non-residential" parking, that is to say office parking. If office workers have nowhere to park they are more likely to use public transport, but this has to be adequate and reliable. Other than that, the biggest driver of peak hour congestion in towns and cities is the school trip journey by parents choosing not to send their offspring to the local school where they could go on foot or use the provided transport.

Bus journey times have increased by 50% in urban areas since the 1960s, so that more buses are required to maintain any given level of frequency. Moreover, a ten per cent decrease in speed reduces patronage by at least the same amount. Only proactive use of traffic management powers by local authorities can help to limit this effect but many are reluctant to use these powers for fear of alienating the “motor voter”. The move to 100% off-bus ticketing in London has helped to increase operating speeds there but achieving this elsewhere is impossible in the deregulated regime with a multiplicity of competing operators.

 

[Sprinter107]

Maybe the best route is to tackle "private non-residential" parking, that is to say office parking. If office workers have nowhere to park they are more likely to use public transport, but this has to be adequate and reliable. Other than that, the biggest driver of peak hour congestion in towns and cities is the school trip journey by parents choosing not to send their offspring to the local school where they could go on foot or use the provided transport.

Bus journey times have increased by 50% in urban areas since the 1960s, so that more buses are required to maintain any given level of frequency. Moreover, a ten per cent decrease in speed reduces patronage by at least the same amount. Only proactive use of traffic management powers by local authorities can help to limit this effect but many are reluctant to use these powers for fear of alienating the “motor voter”. The move to 100% off-bus ticketing in London has helped to increase operating speeds there but achieving this elsewhere is impossible in the deregulated regime with a multiplicity of competing operators.

You're most certainly correct with a 50% increase in journey times. The bus route I lived on as a kid took about 42 minutes from one end to the other. It takes practically an hour and half now.

 

[Sprinter107]

Maybe morecoark and ride on the outskirts of City Centres, maybe on brownfield sites, that provide frequent express services into the centres, which may not be subjected to much anti social behaviour might help, or maybe more routes diverted to local railway stations perhaps.

 

[Ken H]

if you stop car use in cities, then they will die. Same as people vote with their tyres at high parking charges and go to out of ton shopping, or just stay at home and shop on the internet. Remember, many who dont live in the city will go elsewhere if using their car becomes difficult too.

people have mentioned anti-social behaviour. This is especially difficult for women, especially those travelling alone.

 

[theblackwatch]

if you stop car use in cities, then they will die. Same as people vote with their tyres at high parking charges and go to out of ton shopping, or just stay at home and shop on the internet. Remember, many who dont live in the city will go elsewhere if using their car becomes difficult too.

people have mentioned anti-social behaviour. This is especially difficult for women, especially those travelling alone.

Many cities and large towns are already half-dead - empty shops, or full of 'pound stores', bookies, pawnbrokers, charity shops. Any attempt at making it more difficult for folk by not allowing them to use the car will only accelerate the death of the city centre as we know it. Go to a large retail park though, which has plenty of parking space, and it's busy normally...

Any park and ride needs to have a decent service to it. The ones in York close just after 8pm - hardly useful if you're going out for a meal or visiting the cinema or theatre!

 

[Sprinter107]

Many cities and large towns are already half-dead - empty shops, or full of 'pound stores', bookies, pawnbrokers, charity shops. Any attempt at making it more difficult for folk by not allowing them to use the car will only accelerate the death of the city centre as we know it. Go to a large retail park though, which has plenty of parking space, and it's busy normally...

Any park and ride needs to have a decent service to it. The ones in York close just after 8pm - hardly useful if you're going out for a meal or visiting the cinema or theatre!

Yes. You're correct with the operating times of park and ride. They seem to be geared around shoppers and traditional office hours. I think to attract more users, they need to take into account shift workers, and evening travellers. They need to run from very early in a morning to around about midnight really, and at intervals of no less that 15 minutes to be attractive to car users.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yes. You're correct with the operating times of park and ride. They seem to be geared around shoppers and traditional office hours. I think to attract more users, they need to take into account shift workers, and evening travellers. They need to run from very early in a morning to around about midnight really, and at intervals of no less that 15 minutes to be attractive to car users.

Absolutely agree with this. I think most councils and people that run parking facilities in any city seem to be stuck in the dark ages of a set "peak" time whereas nowadays it's very wide in terms of hours. Could argue that peaks are 6am to 9am and 3pm to 7/8pm nowadays

 

[Sprinter107]

That's right. The evening peak is a lot more extended than it was. People are out later now. The later trains are a lot busier now than they were just a few years ago. The main roads out of city centres are as busy later in the evening with cars as they are in the day.

 

[PaulMc7]

That's right. The evening peak is a lot more extended than it was. People are out later now. The later trains are a lot busier now than they were just a few years ago. The main roads out of city centres are as busy later in the evening with cars as they are in the day.

See it a lot in Glasgow tbh. The buses near me are still busy at 10/11pm coming out of the city centre and it wasn't like that until recent years

 

[Sprinter107]

Yes, same here. They're quite full. But in my area that could be linked with a reduction in very late evening frequencies.

 

[radamfi]

A friend recently came across from Amsterdam for a few days, and was absolutely dismayed at what he witnessed on board 2 of our buses, ones that were well loaded too. He said never again did he want to travel on one.

Other places are not as bad as Britain, so buses don't always suffer from anti-social behaviour. Although the biggest British city, which is no stranger to crime generally, has a lot of middle class people using buses.

As far as I know, there is no significant city in the western world that has banned cars in the whole city centre, although many cities have restricted access to varying degrees.

 

[JamesT]

Oxford’s park and rides are pretty good in comparison then. Buses run 6am to after 11pm, though the frequency drops to half hourly towards the end of the evening.
The two councils are currently consulting on proposals to make private motor vehicle use harder in the city by adding more restrictions where only public transport are allowed through. So you can still access almost everywhere, but to get between two points in the city by car you might have to go out to the ring road and back in again.
https://news.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cou...ion-and-improving-public-transport-in-oxford/
This follows on from the existing area that’s banned to private vehicles during working hours (8-6), hopefully they can do a better job of enforcement.