edwin_m
Veteran Member
Is there any right of appeal to the European Court of Justice? That would be the ultimate irony...
Edit: Apparently not. Shame.
Edit: Apparently not. Shame.
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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...
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RailUK Forums
It'll be a bloody expensive round....
Ah "democratic decision of the people". The sort of talk of somebody who frankly can no longer express or articulate what benefit or point there ever was to wanting Brexit in the first place.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
No.
Because this is a domestic, constitutional issue the European court has no jurisdiction and the government has no option to appeal as the Supreme Court is the highest in the UK.
That is your sovereignty in action
433N
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Am I right in thinking that this latest ruling means that Boris Johnson will be put in the stocks and we'll be allowed to throw rotting veg at him ?
One can only hope...
edwin_m
Veteran Member
No, because we'll be eating the rotting veg instead after no deal.
Killingworth
Established Member
Please don't think this means we've changed to remain. All it means is Brexit is going to drag on a bit longer. There's no clear way out of this mess that will restore any degree of stability.
It's not just hampering the British economy but also those of all nations trading with us, depending on the amount of that trade. Until someone gets a grip and clearly defines how they can lead us into a future without constant carping from the sidelines we're in the proverbial. That person will have to be very strong to withstand the slings and arrows liable to come from both sides.
As things stand I can't see a Labour or LibDem MP able to do that, and there aren't many Tories willing to stand up to the Brexiteer mob. OK, old Ken might, but how many others would stand with him and hope to be re-elected, let alone lead the party? That said Jeremy has been thrown a life belt today!
It's not just hampering the British economy but also those of all nations trading with us, depending on the amount of that trade. Until someone gets a grip and clearly defines how they can lead us into a future without constant carping from the sidelines we're in the proverbial. That person will have to be very strong to withstand the slings and arrows liable to come from both sides.
As things stand I can't see a Labour or LibDem MP able to do that, and there aren't many Tories willing to stand up to the Brexiteer mob. OK, old Ken might, but how many others would stand with him and hope to be re-elected, let alone lead the party? That said Jeremy has been thrown a life belt today!
I'd like to think most people realise this. It does, however, mean that Boris has been handed another defeat so, hopefully, the more moderate wing of the Tory party will decide that enough is enough and depose him and the arch Brexiteers and install someone who can actually deliver a Brexit that doesn't completely screw over the entire country for the benefit of a few tax dodgers.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I'm holding on to hope that Parliament will agree a referendum. It lost by 27 votes in the indicative vote but at the time several less Brexit-hardline Tories were on the government payroll and others may now have come to the conclusion that there's no other way out.
I'm glad that you said "degree of stability". It's unrealistic that any outcome would please everybody. However, as you say there are degrees of stability ranging from those who get broadly what they ant to those who certainly don't. So even if there was a no-deal exit or even a fairly extreme 'deal', forget all the 'will of the people' broken record since the referendum and the oft repeated 'nobody was talking of a no-deal during the referendum campaign' chorus, what is true that any action that consigns the country to years of decline, - even many months of supply difficulties not previously experienced outside wartime, will be far more than grumpy voters claiming that they aren't ever going to vote again.
I'm still convinced that, slowly but surely, the credible options are being narrowed down to only the sole elephant in the room of just revoking Article 50 and getting on with our lives.
Yeah, a few people will be annoyed; the majority of the country will however be happy just to breathe a collective sigh of relief.
Yeah, a few people will be annoyed; the majority of the country will however be happy just to breathe a collective sigh of relief.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I have some sympathy with that but I believe it will provide the perfect martyrdom myth for Farage and his ilk - with the possible exception that a LibDem government with over 50% of the public vote would have a mandate to revoke. Failing that unlikely event, it needs to be dealt with by a clear referendum vote on a defined Brexit option (or by STV or similar on multiple options).
furnessvale
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Surely you mean 50% of the electorate? It has often been pointed out that 17.4m votes in another place are not 50% of the UK electorate.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
If people like you can claim "the will of the people" on 52% of the people who voted then so can I. I've never suggested that the non-voters in themselves invalidate the referendum result - the vagueness of the leave option and the lies during the campaign do that well enough on their own. I've only pointed out that logic and opinion polls indicate that many of the 2016 non-voters would support Remain in a future vote.
That doesn't apply for general elections where the winning party has campaigned on that basis. It's even possible to be the government with an absolute minority, (i.e. not in any formal coalition), but the current administration has obviously failed on that one.
As far as referendums go, as has been discussed many time in this thread and others, any considered referendum seeking a change or the status quo normally has a significantly greater than 50% majority required for the change optionn to be effected. Is it coincidental that Cameron had the same Eton/Oxford education as Johnson?
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
The opposition parties surely cant be talking about a vote of no confidence. They haven't won the war yet!
Esker-pades
Established Member
Ian Blackford seems to wants one.
I agree with you though. We can't vote Johnson down until we know there is no wriggle room.
Struner
Member
Farage a martyr? He’ll have a fine job - in his case a sine cure for the next five years.
krus_aragon
Established Member
I had to look up that snippet of Latin, it made no sense when trying to interpret it as mathematics and medicine.
He and his elected colleagues will be able to continue to grumble about the result (if it comes to pass) for a fair old while, makes you wonder if some of the other MEPs in the room would be tempted to decline further extensions because of the risk of their staying around!
(The world needs more Latin!
)
Struner
Member
The BoJo won’t have any problems with it tho. 
So you’re not in his class! thumbs up. 
So you’re not in his class! thumbs up.
krus_aragon
Established Member
Meh, I can definitely trump him in saying Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwlllantysiliogogogoch!The BoJo won’t have any problems with it tho.
Howardh
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That's easy for you to say. Mind you, Boris is top dog at meaningless bobbldeygookies.Meh, I can definitely trump him in saying Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwlllantysiliogogogoch!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Referendum is a Latin word. What doesn't he understand about that?
(disappointed to find that Google Translate offers Klingon but not Latin)
(disappointed to find that Google Translate offers Klingon but not Latin)
Indeed and the judgement addresses in detail why the normal procedure for conference season is a recess because it allows other parliamentary business to continue even if the houses are not sitting .
From what I have seen on the BBC news today , the Conservative party conference is still going ahead .Presumably there might be some disruption to this .
Please give us the Klingon.
Giugiaro
Established Member
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Is this what you were thinking of?
Guardian said:
The video of him saying that was on the BBC1 Ten O'Clock News tonight too.
He doesn't actually say that the court wants to frustrate Brexit, but it's still in my view a very scurrilous remark because it seems to imply, without directly stating, that the judgement is somehow aimed at preventing Brexit. So it's a very clever remark in terms of potentially undermining respect for the independence of the judiciary while professing to respect it. To my mind, that's an absolutely awful thing to do, since respect for the independence of the judiciary is crucial to our democracy.
(Aside from the minor issue that he states that the will of the people 'is to come out of the EU on 31 October as if that's a verified fact - but to judge from recent opinion polls, that's almost certainly not true).
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Giugiaro
Established Member
Sort of like how Trump tweeted that remark to Greta without really needing to. Some people never learned to keep their mouths shut.
Not only scurrilous and very clever but also very arrogant—the clear implication of what he says here (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-po...ohnson-this-is-a-verdict-that-we-will-respect) is that he knows what's what better than the unanimous panel of 11 of the 12 Supreme Court judges. But then for any member of government one can easily see the attractions of desperately hanging on to the uncircumscribed powers of absolute monarchy represented by the doctrine that matters such as prorogation are political, for the executive only, and with no right of any court to intervene because they are political. (It also helps, of course, if you can be certain that the monarch and her advisers will just do what they're told, sign on the dotted line, and raise no awkward questions.)
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