RHDR - two trains in single track section at same time, going in opposite directions.

[2HAP]

The RAIB are to publish a safety digest after two RHDR trains ended up on a single track section of line going in opposite directions. They stopped about 300m apart and no collision occurred.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/serious-operating-irregularity-at-romney-sands

At around 10:35 hrs on 28 August 2019, a train from Dungeness to Hythe left Romney Sands station and entered the single line section to New Romney. A train from Hythe to Dungeness was in the same section, travelling in the opposite direction. The two trains came to a stand about 316 metres apart.

 

[UP13]

I thought they had a token system. Very worrying.

 

[Edders23]

never been to that one (too far away) but that certainly would put me off

 

[Bletchleyite]

never been to that one (too far away) but that certainly would put me off

It could happen on any single line without TPWS, including on the mainline if there are any such lines.

 

[Edders23]

It could happen on any single line without TPWS, including on the mainline if there are any such lines.

I thought that's what the block token system was invented to prevent ?

 

[flash]

A token system is only as reliable as the humans operating it!!!! The system is tried and tested but is still subject to human errors (I've no knowledge of the facts of this incident and I'm not judging what occurred), but to err is human . If, as previous posters state, it worries them, then how do they cope with cars, bus transport, air transport etc - I'm fairly sure these individuals do not live in their living rooms waiting for the bus or plane to crash into their houses. Incidents happen everywhere in life, the important thing is to learn.

 

[UP13]

never been to that one (too far away) but that certainly would put me off

I'd definitely recommend it. Each station is a destination on its own right. A fleet of 10 pacifics, dozen or so carriages per train, double track - scaled up it would blow other railways out of the water. It would also be 75mph running if scaled up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought that's what the block token system was invented to prevent ?

It stops you taking a token that would permit a conflicting move (just as with a train staff you can't have it unless the driver of the train out of the section hands it over as there is only one). It doesn't, unless you have catch points unlocked by some sort of key on the token or TPWS on the starting signal (assuming there is one), physically stop a driver departing without the token.

In essence it reduces the risk of this happening to very low but doesn't zero it.

 

[Cowley]

I'd definitely recommend it. Each station is a destination on its own right. A fleet of 10 pacifics, dozen or so carriages per train, double track - scaled up it would blow other railways out of the water. It would also be 75mph running if scaled up.

I agree. I’ve only ever visited it once but I absolutely loved it. A really unique experience.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I agree. I’ve only ever visited it once but I absolutely loved it. A really unique experience.

I went with two sympathetic* normals on August Bank Holiday Monday. I hadn't been to New Romney since about 1958. I think it is an amazing line and operation. The locomotives are simply engineering and aesthetic beauties.

What I found special, in terms of comparison with many 'regular' preserved lines, is the fact the locomotives - with 12 and 14 coach trains in tow - have to work to their limits to keep time. Even if it's only 25 mph max speed, what with loco noise and the rolling and rocking along the track, it feels more like 75-80 mph.

I remember in an earlier thread in here somewhere, one correspondent complained that the scenery along the line consists mainly of back gardens. Well, this is partly true, it's obviously not the West Somerset or North Yorks Moors, but there are still plenty of open sections across the marsh areas too.

Whatever, passing another steam hauled "express" on the double track section is a real experience.

 

[etr221]

I thought that's what the block token system was invented to prevent ?

It stops you taking a token that would permit a conflicting move (just as with a train staff you can't have it unless the driver of the train out of the section hands it over as there is only one). It doesn't, unless you have catch points unlocked by some sort of key on the token or TPWS on the starting signal (assuming there is one), physically stop a driver departing without the token.

In essence it reduces the risk of this happening to very low but doesn't zero it.

The classic example where token working failed due to misuse was the Abermule collision on the Cambrian Railways in 1921.

As the saying goes, it is difficult to make things foolproof, because fools are so ingenious.

All safeworking systems *should* prevent accidents - and they do, until an ingenious fool (or maybe just a stupid one) manages to abuse them, and they don't.

 

[Calthrop]

I remember in an earlier thread in here somewhere, one correspondent complained that the scenery along the line consists mainly of back gardens.

And what's wrong with that? As the bard said, lamenting the demise of the Clogher Valley Railway --

"She ran past back gardens and down the main street,
And frightened the horses she happened to meet..."

 

[Edders23]

I'd definitely recommend it. Each station is a destination on its own right. A fleet of 10 pacifics, dozen or so carriages per train, double track - scaled up it would blow other railways out of the water. It would also be 75mph running if scaled up.

I am more of a diesel man though so so Pacifics aren't necessarily a big draw

 

[UP13]

I am more of a diesel man though so so Pacifics aren't necessarily a big draw

There is always a diesel service and are scaled down models of Union Pacific diesels. They work harder with 14 carriages at 24mph than a mainline diesel with 4 coaches on a standard gauge railway. Arguably better thrash (in scale terms).

 

[RichT54]

I grew up on Romney Marsh in the late fifties/early sixties and have very fond memories of the RH&DR and always feel sad when I hear of incidents on the line. At least in this case there was no collision or injury, unlike some of the tragic events that have occurred in the past.

I'd definitely recommend it. Each station is a destination on its own right. A fleet of 10 pacifics, dozen or so carriages per train, double track - scaled up it would blow other railways out of the water. It would also be 75mph running if scaled up.

Agreed! There are some great shots of trains running at speed in the following video (which is by one of the mods on this site I believe?). The track looks a lot rougher here than I can recall in the past

 

[Cowley]

I grew up on Romney Marsh in the late fifties/early sixties and have very fond memories of the RH&DR and always feel sad when I hear of incidents on the line. At least in this case there was no collision or injury, unlike some of the tragic events that have occurred in the past.



Agreed! There are some great shots of trains running at speed in the following video (which is by one of the mods on this site I believe?). The track looks a lot rougher here than I can recall in the past

Wow. See what you mean about the track, especially in the third clip!

 

[341o2]

The classic example where token working failed due to misuse was the Abermule collision on the Cambrian Railways in 1921.

As the saying goes, it is difficult to make things foolproof, because fools are so ingenious.

All safeworking systems *should* prevent accidents - and they do, until an ingenious fool (or maybe just a stupid one) manages to abuse them, and they don't.

The two issues which led to the Abermule collision were firstly that the station staff became blase about operation of the token instruments - anyone handy operated them and the train crew who did not check the token they received was the correct one. Every member of staff present were culpable to some degree in that correct procedures were not followed - an accident waiting to happen

 

[38Cto15E]

Yes, that 3rd clip is very dramatic, it's a wonder that the driver didn't fall off the loco.

 

[341o2]

. A fleet of 10 pacifics, dozen or so carriages per train, double track - scaled up it would blow other railways out of the water. It would also be 75mph running if scaled up.

Nos 5 and 6 are Mountain or 4-8-2

 

[Edders23]

Having seen the way the trains bounce on that track definitely don't think i'll visit

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having seen the way the trains bounce on that track definitely don't think i'll visit

Yeah, that does look very rough!

 

[UP13]

Nos 5 and 6 are Mountain or 4-8-2

Indeed. Only mountain locomotives in the UK.

 

[duffield]

Having seen the way the trains bounce on that track definitely don't think i'll visit

It's fine, I've ridden on it many times and it's nowhere near rough enough to be thrown about or unpleasant.

 

[UP13]

It bounces that much on standard gauge. I imagine the one third scale makes it look much worse...

 

[Llanigraham]

It bounces that much on standard gauge. I imagine the one third scale makes it look much worse...

Correct, plus video seems to accentuate it. Watch nearly any narrow gauge railway and they seem to be the same.

 

[Rob F]

RH&DR is a fantastic day out. I thoroughly recommend it!

 

[ian1944]

And what's wrong with that? As the bard said, lamenting the demise of the Clogher Valley Railway --

"She ran past back gardens and down the main street,
And frightened the horses she happened to meet..."

I remember on a rail tour in the South Wales valleys many years ago, the most interesting thing being what was going on in some back gardens and behind some back windows. The train was outside the normal schedule of course, and obviously unexpected here and there.

 

[70014IronDuke]

And what's wrong with that? As the bard said, lamenting the demise of the Clogher Valley Railway --

"She ran past back gardens and down the main street,
And frightened the horses she happened to meet..."

Dunno. It wasn't me that complained about it.

 

[DavidGrain]

I don't know the details of this incident but I am aware of a single track incident at Aylesbury in 2007 with one of the special trains running on a bank holiday to Quainton Road encountering a freight loco using the line to run round a train in the siding. In that incident the shunter replaced the token in the machine while the loco was still on the mainline allowing the passenger train to obtain a token to enter the section.
https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/two-trains-in-the-same-section-at-aylesbury

 

[RichT54]

The RAIB has issued a Safety Digest for the incident

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...g-irregularity-at-romney-sands-28-august-2019

The incident occurred because:

a. there was no equipment or system in place to prevent a ticket being issued without the tablet being present

b. the signaller at New Romney and the trainee stationmaster at Romney Sands did not come to a clear understanding about what train movements were planned

c. the trainee stationmaster, who was not yet qualified in tablet and ticket working, prepared and issued a ticket without having the tablet in his possession

d. the driver of number 12 accepted the ticket as authority to proceed to New Romney, without having seen the tablet for that section

e. the stationmaster at Romney Sands did not adequately supervise or challenge the actions of the trainee stationmaster