GEML Four-Tracking to Colchester?

[Tobbes]

I ask whether this was ever considered out of ignorance, but also because of the number of bridges with additional arches for the outer two tracks north of Shenfield?

I'm not sure how much use it would be (and today would probably require the extra pair of tracks to be tunnelled under Chelmsford from south of the Chelmsford Golf Course to rejoin the existing line north of Beaulieau Park). Anyway, an historic question.

 

[yorkie]

You wouldn't need to 4-track the whole lot to make a big difference; if you could just 4-track two of the stations and the section of track between them, trains calling at both could be overtaken by a non-stop express (e.g. a good example of this is Virgin Trains services that use the slow lines Tamworth - Lichfield and are overtaken on this section, using the fast lines either side of these stations).

 

[AM9]

You wouldn't need to 4-track the whole lot to make a big difference; if you could just 4-track two of the stations and the section of track between them, trains calling at both could be overtaken by a non-stop express (e.g. a good example of this is Virgin Trains services that use the slow lines Tamworth - Lichfield and are overtaken on this section, using the fast lines either side of these stations).

As a guess, would that be Beaulieu Park and Witham and the track between them? If so would Hatfield Peverel just have platform faces on the slows?

 

[Tobbes]

You wouldn't need to 4-track the whole lot to make a big difference; if you could just 4-track two of the stations and the section of track between them, trains calling at both could be overtaken by a non-stop express (e.g. a good example of this is Virgin Trains services that use the slow lines Tamworth - Lichfield and are overtaken on this section, using the fast lines either side of these stations).

Are there any plans / RUS referals?

 

[Bald Rick]

Extending Witham loops was looked at a few years ago, but as yorkie says, it needs to cover at least two, preferably three stations. To my knowledge there’s never been any investigation into four tracking longer than that.

And all it does is reduce journey times, a little, for the fast services. It doesn’t provide more usable capacity, as the constraints are still there south of Shenfield, at Stratford, Liverpool St, and across the North London Line (for freight).

I’m intrigued about the bridges though. I’m not aware of these, and I know the route well. Newer road bridges are generally built with generous clearances, but that’s more to enable construction without disrupting the railway than provision for extra tracks. Where were you thinking?

 

[Tobbes]

Extending Witham loops was looked at a few years ago, but as yorkie says, it needs to cover at least two, preferably three stations. To my knowledge there’s never been any investigation into four tracking longer than that.

And all it does is reduce journey times, a little, for the fast services. It doesn’t provide more usable capacity, as the constraints are still there south of Shenfield, at Stratford, Liverpool St, and across the North London Line (for freight).

I’m intrigued about the bridges though. I’m not aware of these, and I know the route well. Newer road bridges are generally built with generous clearances, but that’s more to enable construction without disrupting the railway than provision for extra tracks. Where were you thinking?

Interesting, thank-you @Bald Rick - as one soon to return to commuting from Ipswich to London, I'm all in favour of such improvements to the fast services, as well as banning non-London bound frieght from GEML south!

My parochial interests aside, several of the brick overbridges between Ingatestone and Chelmsford seemed to have extra arches either side of the running lines, although later concrete bridges did not. It may well be that I was misinterpreting what I was looking at, of course.

On the capacity point, is the issue headway on the fasts from Shenfield, or terminal capacity at Liverpool Street (or a combination of the two?) My thinking was that when CR1 is fully operational, would this release enough suburban platforms from Liverpool Street (High Level) to allow an enhancement of the GEML services beyond Shenfield?

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting, thank-you @Bald Rick - as one soon to return to commuting from Ipswich to London, I'm all in favour of such improvements to the fast services, as well as banning non-London bound frieght from GEML south!

My parochial interests aside, several of the brick overbridges between Ingatestone and Chelmsford seemed to have extra arches either side of the running lines, although later concrete bridges did not. It may well be that I was misinterpreting what I was looking at, of course.

On the capacity point, is the issue headway on the fasts from Shenfield, or terminal capacity at Liverpool Street (or a combination of the two?) My thinking was that when CR1 is fully operational, would this release enough suburban platforms from Liverpool Street (High Level) to allow an enhancement of the GEML services beyond Shenfield?

The issue (in the peak) is headway / stopping patterns on the Mains. When the Elizabeth line finally vacates Liverpool St, the (2) platforms released won’t be long enough for any extra GE services.

 

[Tobbes]

The issue (in the peak) is headway / stopping patterns on the Mains. When the Elizabeth line finally vacates Liverpool St, the (2) platforms released won’t be long enough for any extra GE services.

Many thanks - and is this stopping pattern what would be eased by your three station loop idea?

 

[Bald Rick]

Many thanks - and is this stopping pattern what would be eased by your three station loop idea?

Nope. It’s the stopping pattern variations between Shenfield and London that’s the issue.

 

[Tobbes]

Nope. It’s the stopping pattern variations between Shenfield and London that’s the issue.

Many thanks as ever - and with ever more demand to stop at Stratford for both offices on the Olympic Park and for Canary Wharf, I'd not be surprised if Stratford became a norm on all GEML services.

 

[Meerkat]

Stratford should surely be a stop on all services, plenty of connections and busier and busier itself.