My idea for a UK wide high speed rail network

[PTR 444]

The map above shows my idea for a UK-wide high speed rail network. HS2 will be built to the same route as currently planned but the eastern phase 2 branch will now be a separate project called HSMidland which will also have a branch to Doncaster. The Northern Powerhouse rail project will be built to the same standards as HS2 while a brand new line, HSAngloScot will link it with a pre-built Scottish network connecting Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen. Other lines include HSEast serving Cambridge and allowing for quicker journeys between London and the North East, HSAir, linking Heathrow and Gatwick to the rest of the network and HSCymru/HSWest serving Bristol, South Wales and the West Country.

Finally, a range of classic lines will be upgraded to allow high speed trains to operate on them. These are shown as grey on the map.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

View attachment 68419 My map does all the talking here!

Where did you make this? oh and good work looks great.

 

[PTR 444]

Where did you make this? oh and good work looks great.

Thank you! I used MS paint. Simple but effective and all done in a couple of hours!

 

[175mph]

What speed(s) would you propose for all of these lines? Also, I'm a little bit disappointed with Hull getting a 'classic compatible' line.

 

[PTR 444]

What speed(s) would you propose for all of these lines? Also, I'm a little bit disappointed with Hull getting a 'classic compatible' line.

I propose an operating speed of 186mph on all the HS lines except for HSMidland and HSEast which will be 200mph to guarantee it as faster than the more direct ECML route. The classic compatible lines will all be upgraded to 125mph except in places where it is physically impossible to do so.

 

[175mph]

I propose an operating speed of 186mph on all the HS lines and 125mph for the classic compatible lines.

Would that mean pushing domestic HS1 to operate at 186mph too? And why not push for 140mph on the classic lines where it's possible, ie WCML, ECML and the GWML? Then operate every single other classic line at their maximum speeds, even if it's only say 100mph or say 90mph??

I would operate HS2 at speeds of at least 225mph and consider the talked about 250mph speeds if possible.

 

[PTR 444]

Would that mean pushing domestic HS1 to operate at 186mph too? And why not push for 140mph on the classic lines where it's possible, ie WCML, ECML and the GWML? Then operate every single other classic line at their maximum speeds, even if it's only say 100mph or say 90mph??

I would operate HS2 at speeds of at least 225mph and consider the talked about 250mph speeds if possible.

Yes, it would involve upgrading HS1 to 186mph. I would consider 140mph running on classic lines in places but this would be an issue for the ECML as it would become quicker than the HS Midland and HS East line which was intended to bypass it. This is why i’m now considering an operating speed of 200mph for both of those lines. Anything above 200mph would be too unrealistic as a serious proposal IMO.

 

[Bevan Price]

An interesting map, but I am not convinced that UK is large enough to justify the huge cost of an extensive HS network.

 

[deltic]

Very impressive but why so many airport stations - most airports serve their local catchment areas. How many trains per hour do you envisage on each section?

 

[PTR 444]

Very impressive but why so many airport stations - most airports serve their local catchment areas. How many trains per hour do you envisage on each section?

At this stage I would guess each section would have roughly 8 trains per hour each way tops. I can’t say this is definite as it would take me the good part of a week to write up a comprehensive list of all my proposed HS services. As for the airport stations, the lines just happen to pass by so why miss the opportunity to build a connection?

 

[175mph]

An interesting map, but I am not convinced that UK is large enough to justify the huge cost of an extensive HS network.

Speaking semi-realistically, I think that as well as HS2, we only need two more high speed lines, a Hull(?), Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool line at a speed of 200mph and a Scottish high speed line like the pink line in PTR 444's map at a speed of 186mph.

@PTR 444 I forgot to ask as well, on these high speed lines, would you introduce double decker trains and if you did but not on every single high speed line, which ones would you select for double decker running?

 

[Ianno87]

Euston / St Oancras won't have capacity to take any more trains from Bristol/Cambridge etc!

 

[PTR 444]

@PTR 444 I forgot to ask as well, on these high speed lines, would you introduce double decker trains and if you did but not on every single high speed line, which ones would you select for double decker running?

I would certainly consider double decker running for certain services on the HS lines. It just depends on whether the classic compatible lines have enough clearance to take them as well. There are likely to be several tunnels on my HS network so it’s a case of whether these should be engineered to take double deck trains.

 

[PTR 444]

This is my proposed service pattern for trains using the core section of HS2:

Originating from Euston:

2tph to Birmingham Curzon Street
2tph to Manchester Piccadilly
1tph to Carlisle
1tph to Liverpool Lime Street
1tph to Holyhead
1tph to Shrewsbury

Originating from Heathrow and beyond:

1tph Bournemouth - Manchester Picc
1tph Portsmouth - Birmingham Curzon St
1tph Brighton - Newcastle
1tph Margate - Birmingham Curzon St

 

[Llanigraham]

I think you need to look at a map of the UK to see how impractical linking Bristol Airport into a South Wales - Swindon route would be, and then on via Oxford to London.

 

[PTR 444]

I think you need to look at a map of the UK to see how impractical linking Bristol Airport into a South Wales - Swindon route would be

If money was no object, there would be a tunnel underneath the Severn estuary between Clevedon and Saint Mellons. Yes I know it would be orientated in a NW/SE direction but that doesn’t matter as it will still be quicker than the GWML via Newport.

 

[PTR 444]

...and then on via Oxford to London.

I routed it this way rather than the more logical route via Reading for the following reasons:

1. The North Wessex Downs AONB is in the way and constructing a new line through there will face a lot of local opposition.
2. Oxford is home to Britain’s top university and many high-tech industries. It deserves to be connected to more of the country to enable the city to prosper even further.
3. Reading already has a decent enough rail link to London and Swindon so why build another one there when Oxford could do with the same treatment?

 

[superalbs]

I think you need to look at a map of the UK to see how impractical linking Bristol Airport into a South Wales - Swindon route would be, and then on via Oxford to London.

And why would a field near Bristol be more deserving of a high-speed service than Bristol city centre? By the time you get from the city centre to the airport, any journey time saving would be very quickly negated.

 

[PTR 444]

And why would a field near Bristol be more deserving of a high-speed service than Bristol city centre? By the time you get from the city centre to the airport, any journey time saving would be very quickly negated.

But Bristol Temple Meads will be served by a classic compatible line branching off the HSL anyway so there will be no need to change.

 

[HSTEd]

It is likely that any future high speed lines would be constructed mostly underground anyway to avoid the endless campaigning and problems with locals along the route.

It's more expensive in terms of construction costs, but the route might actually get built and you won't have to spend many many billions on land purchases and the like......

But also why are you not doing anything about the South Coast?
It's demand is more likely to be able to saturate a new line than any of the others you propose here

 

[The Ham]

It is likely that any future high speed lines would be constructed mostly underground anyway to avoid the endless campaigning and problems with locals along the route.

It's more expensive in terms of construction costs, but the route might actually get built and you won't have to spend many many billions on land purchases and the like......

But also why are you not doing anything about the South Coast?
It's demand is more likely to be able to saturate a new line than any of the others you propose here

Given that the likes of Crossrail 2 and Southern Approach to Heathrow aren't certain to be built and they would enable several new services to be operated in the very area in question, then I don't hold out a lot of hope for any of the proposal to happen, much as I think it would be a good idea.

Crossrail 2 should have been started half way through the construction of the first Crossrail, as the extra 8tph would be well used upon opening, even in the off peak periods. Maybe not full (although some could be) but certainly busy enough to justify being run.

As such there's almost certainly enough demand for a new line/extra tracks to the likes of Brighton or Portsmouth or Southampton. Whilst if you built a high speed line serving all three it would certainly be well used.

A new High Speed line running London, Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton and then back to London by a second route would mean that no one place was at the end of the line.

It could also allow services to run fast or of London to a junction to then serve other stations/lines. For instance running fast to near to Basingstoke and then calling there and then at places along the WofE line without slowing down services on the main HS line.

 

[LOL The Irony]

View attachment 68419
The map above shows my idea for a UK-wide high speed rail network. HS2 will be built to the same route as currently planned but the eastern phase 2 branch will now be a separate project called HSMidland which will also have a branch to Doncaster. The Northern Powerhouse rail project will be built to the same standards as HS2 while a brand new line, HSAngloScot will link it with a pre-built Scottish network connecting Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen. Other lines include HSEast serving Cambridge and allowing for quicker journeys between London and the North East, HSAir, linking Heathrow and Gatwick to the rest of the network and HSCymru/HSWest serving Bristol, South Wales and the West Country.

Finally, a range of classic lines will be upgraded to allow high speed trains to operate on them. These are shown as grey on the map.

Why isn't Carlisle - Glagow at least classic compatable?

 

[Doomotron]

Nice idea, although 186mph domestic HS1 services is a bit much.

 

[PTR 444]

Why isn't Carlisle - Glagow at least classic compatable?

I thought someone would spot this at some point. The reason being is because I intend to route all the fast Glasgow to London trains via Edinburgh and HSAngloScot (the purple line on the map). The same goes for Manchester - Glasgow and Birmingham - Glasgow services.

 

[ohgoditsjames]

Meadowhall isn’t a great idea for a regional hub. Why might you ask? Well for one thing it’s one of the busiest junctions on the M1, combined with the traffic going to and from Meadowhall shopping centre that sees around 30 million visitors per year, then there’s the traffic from the Arena, centertainment, Ikea, and the retail park. The roads struggle as it is, creating a major station hub there would make it even worse.

Not to mention there wouldn’t be any time benefits for people travelling from Sheffield to Leeds and Sheffield to London.