My idea to get the 171's to EMR & their replacements

[LOL The Irony]

Following on from these two threads on the future of Southern's 171's, I have come up with the following plan;

• Keep the 158's at EMR until they can take on the 171's or
• Send the 175's to EMR as a tempoary measure until they can get the 171's

At the Southern end of things, my idea is to replace the 171's with 196's or if they don't fit, a suitably sized version (let's call them 194's). Instead, you could (Forgive me Father, for I am about to sin) build bi-mode CAF's to replace the 171's. These bi-modes can be fitted with a pantograph & shoes for future-proofing.

(And no, these aren't tri-modes, they're dual volatage bi-modes. If we follow the logic of some people, 313's, 319's & 365's are all bi-modes)

 

[Southern Dvr]

Or just send the 158s to GTR?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Or just send the 158s to GTR?

End doors, lower top speed, older units, nortoriously slow doors. I can go on.

 

[Southern Dvr]

End doors, lower top speed, older units, nortoriously slow doors. I can go on.

Please do.

The doors are the only issue.

Top speed irrelevant as 171s never do 100mph as there is no opportunity on the Marshlink or Uckfield.

All the viable alternatives to the 171s are older.

 

[VT 390]

Please do.

The doors are the only issue.

Top speed irrelevant as 171s never do 100mph as there is no opportunity on the Marshlink or Uckfield.

All the viable alternatives to the 171s are older.

Another issue with the 158's especially for the Uckfield services is that they do not have any good standing space which is needed on peak services, also it is not just the position of the doors but they are a lot narrower than most others.

I think the best option is if a new replacement or electrification can not happen for the Southern routes then the 171's should stay where they are and the 158's remain with EMR until more 170/171's become available, the 158's could operated the longer services with less frequent stops such as Nottingham to Norwich.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Please do.

Slower acceleration, lack of first class.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Nobody is building new DMUs.

Not heard about the slower acceleration, was told the contrary in fact.

First Class, an easy fix.

Big advantage over a 171 is the ability to walk through.

Fact is the DfT have signed away the 171s. So a replacement is needed.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Nobody is building new DMUs.

Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles: Are we a joke to you?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Nope. The production lines for pacer and sprinter replacements are at full capacity. I’d also question how easy it would be post Brexit. Remember this is 18 months or more away so DfT not too Fussed yet. This will be a cascade situation.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Nope. The production lines for pacer and sprinter replacements are at full capacity. I’d also question how easy it would be post Brexit. Remember this is 18 months or more away so DfT not too Fussed yet. This will be a cascade situation.

Newport.

 

[hexagon789]

Slower acceleration, lack of first class.

170s are slower accelerating than 158s actually...

 

[LOL The Irony]

170s are slower accelerating than 158s actually...

The more you know, thanks.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Change the couplers, speed up the doors & you’ve still got a sub standard replacement for a 171 but one that’s better than any of the so far suggested alternatives.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Change the couplers

On 30 year old trains that will most likely be temporary? It'd be better to put a BSI - Dellner adaptor in each cab.

 

[Southern Dvr]

In all the years I’ve driven the turbos I’ve never actually seen them coupled to anything other than other turbos so actually your suggestion is very sensible.

Knowing GTR they’ll change the couplers.

 

[hexagon789]

The more you know, thanks.

A 170 only really outdoes a 158 when you have lots of sustained 100mph running.

 

[MatthewRead]

End doors, lower top speed, older units, nortoriously slow doors. I can go on.

Please do.

The doors are the only issue.

Top speed irrelevant as 171s never do 100mph as there is no opportunity on the Marshlink or Uckfield.

All the viable alternatives to the 171s are older.

Oxted tunnel means they are banned from running to Ukfield!

 

[whhistle]

Nobody is building new DMUs.

Define "new".

I'd suggest the last few 195s are still "new" considering some of them are still to be in service.

 

[whhistle]

Fact is the DfT have signed away the 171s. So a replacement is needed.

Sorry, I can't find the document that specifically "signs away the 171s".
Can you link to it please?

 

[Southern Dvr]

If you referring to 158s being banned wiki has their width at 2.7m and a 171 at 2.69m and 319 at 2.82m

 

[LOL The Irony]

If you referring to 158s being banned wiki has their width at 2.7m and a 171 at 2.69m and 319 at 2.82m

10cm is quite a large difference where clearance is concerned.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Its going to be very interesting to see what goes to Southern especially since the franchise ends in 2021 and they are going to have to be replaced in 2022 so there is hardly little time to procure brand new stock and who is going to be interested in such a small order. Especially with the problem of the Oxted Tunnel ruling out many of the viable options. It may require a DfT intervention seeing as they are running the whole management contract.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Sorry, I can't find the document that specifically "signs away the 171s".
Can you link to it please?

I’d suggest buying this months Modern Railways magazine. My employer would not be best pleased if a mere cog in the machinery like me started posting such documents online.