Cardiff Central - Passenger Information

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Arrivals that are terminating are needed at times because the amount of times a train pulls in and is terminating - yet people still try and get on regardless.

Unlike most here, a train is a train. They don’t look at liveries or class of train. If a train is pulling into a platform that their train is expected on, they’ll try and get on it.

That’s the only use I see from them.

 

[krus_aragon]

Arrivals that are terminating are needed at times because the amount of times a train pulls in and is terminating - yet people still try and get on regardless.

Unlike most here, a train is a train. They don’t look at liveries or class of train. If a train is pulling into a platform that their train is expected on, they’ll try and get on it.

That’s the only use I see from them.

On the platform, I agree.

In the foyer/lobby/hall/whatever you want to call it, where people will stand to want to meet travellers, the arrivals board is obviously of greater relevance.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Arrivals that are terminating are needed at times because the amount of times a train pulls in and is terminating - yet people still try and get on regardless.

The problem is at the moment, the volume of announcements being made results in some announcements for departing trains not being played until after the train has been locked for departure as they are stuck in a queue behind arrivals being announced and in some cases by the time the announcement is played it is no longer correct.

This is a particular problem with Holyhead trains which are due to depart at xx:21 minutes past an hour on Platform 2 that I've seen have very late platform changes to platform 1. I've seen this happen, arrivals get announced, then a announcement for Holyhead at Platform 2, another arrival announced the train to Holyhead leaves then another announcement that Holyhead is now on Platform 1, far too late.

The problem is that at most stations you have just departures announced the moment they are triggered. In Cardiff everything gets backed up in a queue. Welsh is not the problem, the problem is the fact we have both Welsh and arrivals being announced which means you've got four things competing for tannoy time, which leads to the problems we've observed.

 

[ainsworth74]

We've got back onto topic now but if anyone does want to discuss whether or not Welsh (or other languages) should be accommodated or how they should be accommodated please do so on a new thread. Further posting on this thread is liable for deletion as off-topic as the situation is what it is and I don't foresee Welsh being removed from Cardiff Central (or any other station) any time soon!

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

I’m well aware of the issues raised, funnily enough, I can read your original post & don’t need it explained to me again!

Everyone here seems to suggest there is no reason for the terminating notices, I’ve just given one.

I use the station daily.

 

[krus_aragon]

I’m well aware of the issues raised, funnily enough, I can read your original post & don’t need it explained to me again!

Everyone here seems to suggest there is no reason for the terminating notices, I’ve just given one.

I use the station daily.

Forgive me, was that in response to my reply? I'm not sure.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Forgive me, was that in response to my reply? I'm not sure.

No, sorry. It was aimed at F Great Eastern.

For what it’s worth, late platform changes are normally announced by a human, which overrides the digital announcements.

Happens quite a lot on 3 & 4 at rush hour.

 

[krus_aragon]

Thanks for the clarification.

For what it’s worth, late platform changes are normally announced by a human, which overrides the digital announcements.

Happens quite a lot on 3 & 4 at rush hour.

That corresponds with my experiences of using Cardiff Central (though of course I don't use it as often now, having moved away from the area).

 

[F Great Eastern]

Everyone here seems to suggest there is no reason for the terminating notices, I’ve just given one.

Sure, it's a reason but in the grand scheme of things having arrival announcements for said reason is less important than making sure people do not miss their trains which should be number one priority.

Thanks for the clarification.

That corresponds with my experiences of using Cardiff Central (though of course I don't use it as often now, having moved away from the area).

Heard it happen a few times yes, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it happens all the time. Perhaps some staff are more pro-active than others.

 

[Dai Corner]

@yorkie @Starmill and possibly other Forum members from outside the area will be using Cardiff Central several times today.

It would be interesting to hear their opinions if they have time to post and feel so inclined.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Just been on Cardiff Central (not a station that I use particularly often) looking to see if I had time to grab a coffee before heading to Pentre Bach for first time.

I must have appeared unusually flummoxed as I scanned the main indicator as a staff member came over and asked “are you having difficulty, Sir”!

Then I happened to see this thread. Separate, ‘regular’/‘permanent’ screens for Welsh and English would be a good idea on the main concourse IMHO.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Heard it happen a few times yes, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it happens all the time. Perhaps some staff are more pro-active than others.

Well it doesn’t happen daily, because platform alterations don’t occur on a daily basis. It’s not hard to work that out!

Every time there has been an alteration, it’s been announced via the digital announcements and also by a human.

I use the station several times a day.

 

[krus_aragon]

Just been on Cardiff Central (not a station that I use particularly often) looking to see if I had time to grab a coffee before heading to Pentre Bach for first time.

I must have appeared unusually flummoxed as I scanned the main indicator as a staff member came over and asked “are you having difficulty, Sir”!

Then I happened to see this thread. Separate, ‘regular’/‘permanent’ screens for Welsh and English would be a good idea on the main concourse IMHO.

Thanks for the fresh point of view. Would permanent screens for the main listings (the three on the right in this image) be what you have in mind, or do you feel all the screens need to be permanently set to a single language?

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Sure, it's a reason but in the grand scheme of things having arrival announcements for said reason is less important than making sure people do not miss their trains which should be number one priority.

You claimed there was no good reason. You were given one and you don’t like it.

Fair enough.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Just been on Cardiff Central (not a station that I use particularly often) looking to see if I had time to grab a coffee before heading to Pentre Bach for first time.

I must have appeared unusually flummoxed as I scanned the main indicator as a staff member came over and asked “are you having difficulty, Sir”!

Then I happened to see this thread. Separate, ‘regular’/‘permanent’ screens for Welsh and English would be a good idea on the main concourse IMHO.

As a Welsh speaker (first language) I would suggest separate screens for both is fair and probably the best solution.

Whilst I appreciate English is the main language spoken in Cardiff, I find it disrespectful and offensive of those who suggest the language should be abolished from the station entirely. Ludicrous.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Well it doesn’t happen daily, because platform alterations don’t occur on a daily basis. It’s not hard to work that out!

Strange that, because almost every day I have been there in the last few weeks I have saw platform alterations. Switches between Platform 1 and 2 and Platform 3 and 4 were the only ones I saw though.

Every time there has been an alteration, it’s been announced via the digital announcements and also by a human..

So you have been standing on the platform, all day every day to know this for sure and you are calling me a liar? Unfortunately I do not lie, I am simply saying it how it is. There is no incentive for me to lie.

An example, on Monday when a Holyhead train pulled in the announcement system announced a Holyhead train on Platform 2, which then came in at Platform 1, a few arrival announcements played, the train left Platform 1 and then there was an announcement about Holyhead being on platform 1. This is what actually happened, Some people only just realised just in time and others missed the train.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Thanks for the fresh point of view. Would permanent screens for the main listings (the three on the right in this image) be what you have in mind, or do you feel all the screens need to be permanently set to a single language?

I think that a major challenge is the short ‘horizon’ of full-pattern displays, then compounded by the language flipping. The occasional traveller will often be unaware of which line/final destination their intermediate station is associated with.
At Sheffield (which I use more frequently than any other large station) there are a lot of full pattern displays and a horizon of over half an hour. If you can’t see Moorthorpe (for example) you know that you’ve got time to get a coffee or paper or to pop into the Tap, depending on the time of day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks for the fresh point of view. Would permanent screens for the main listings (the three on the right in this image) be what you have in mind, or do you feel all the screens need to be permanently set to a single language?

I think them flipping is reasonable provided they flip slowly enough that you can actually read them, and it would be best if the entire bank of displays flipped at the same time (I can't recall if they do or not).

 

[krus_aragon]

I think that a major challenge is the short ‘horizon’ of full-pattern displays, then compounded by the language flipping. The occasional traveller will often be unaware of which line/final destination their intermediate station is associated with.
At Sheffield (which I use more frequently than any other large station) there are a lot of full pattern displays and a horizon of over half an hour. If you can’t see Moorthorpe (for example) you know that you’ve got time to get a coffee or paper or to pop into the Tap, depending on the time of day.

Yeah.

I went to find a picture of what's done at Sheffield (I've only been there once):

That approach covers a lot more departures than the style of boards currently used at Cardiff. The best way to do a bilingual version of that would require some thought (there are a lot of options). Thinking cap on...

From a quick straw poll of RealtimeTrains, Cardiff has 30+ departures an hour (thanks to the frequent Valleys service), whereas Sheffield only has 24. So you may need even more screens to reach the same horizon.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Sheffield’s main board is in columns now, rather than scrolling horizontals (in the photo) BTW. However, I don’t think that that alters the general point.

 

[Parallel]

I use Cardiff Central frequently and think announcements for arriving trains are definitely needed. Terminating trains need to be checked and leave the platforms in good time, especially on 3/4 and the Valleys platforms. If you have a train turn up with no announcements, people do try to get on it!

The problem at Cardiff is how many generic messages they have over their PA. There is one about smoking, unattended luggage and ‘see it say it sorted’ that are probably needed, then you have ‘there are ticket buying facilities at this station...’, ‘this platform slopes towards the track’, ‘due to essential engineering works...’, ‘Penalty fares now apply across the Great Western Railway Network...’ an occasionally very long specific engineering works ones too, which take up quite a lot of time in two languages. Some of these could probably be discarded.

I think announcements queue for 30 seconds at Cardiff and then are wiped off. I’ve also never heard any announcements for any trains ever on the concourse except for platform alterations, pretty sure it’s just generic safety messages only?

I have noticed the delay/cancellation announcements too at Cardiff, I think Transport for Wales must’ve silenced them as they definitely used to play under Arriva. Are they hoping people won’t notice them as much? I think it’s pretty poor to get no info about a cancelled or heavily delayed train.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I'm a bit bemused by all of this. I've always found Cardiff Central very easy to navigate. People have complained about everything from bilingual announcements to flickering screens but has anyone missed a train because of any of this? It feels like a confected argument to me.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I'm a bit bemused by all of this. I've always found Cardiff Central very easy to navigate. People have complained about everything from bilingual announcements to flickering screens but has anyone missed a train because of any of this? It feels like a confected argument to me.

The best way to test the usability of a station and how friendly it is, is to send someone who is familiar with train stations, but has never been to the station before and see how they get on.

The problem is that if you have pre-existing knowledge of a lot of use of the station or regularly use it, that is what aids your decision making and understanding so you look at things with the benefit of that knowledge. If you know something is likely to happen, you're more likely to be prepared for it.

As for people missing the train, I've saw people miss a train as recently as Monday when an announcement went up for a train at Platform 2 as it pulled into Platform 1 as the announcement for the platform change in English, queued behind arrivals announcements, didn't play until the train had actually left.

I use Cardiff Central frequently and think announcements for arriving trains are definitely needed. Terminating trains need to be checked and leave the platforms in good time, especially on 3/4 and the Valleys platforms. If you have a train turn up with no announcements, people do try to get on it!

Perhaps they should do what happens at several non London, Network Rail stations where announcements are made by two different voices, one male and one female and set the announcements for arrivals on 3&4 to only play on those platforms?

I’ve also never heard any announcements for any trains ever on the concourse except for platform alterations, pretty sure it’s just generic safety messages only?

Very rare to hear anything on the concourse I agree, personally think that cancellations and platform alterations and any important service running information should be played at least.

 

[Parallel]

Perhaps they should do what happens at several non London, Network Rail stations where announcements are made by two different voices, one male and one female and set the announcements for arrivals on 3&4 to only play on those platforms?

I do think the platform announcements could be zoned differently, Platforms 0-2 on Zone 1, 3-4 on Zone 2 and 6-8 on Zone 3. Seeing as the trains travel predominantly East on 0-2 and West on 3-4, I don’t see why the people on Platform 1 or 2 need to know what is going on, on 3 or 4. I think the same voices would probably suffice though.

At the moment the zones are split between mainline and valleys, with the concourse on a separate one.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

set the announcements for arrivals on 3&4 to only play on those platforms?

They do. Next.

 

[F Great Eastern]

They do. Next.

They don't, because I've been hearing arrival announcements for 3&4 on 1&2 in the past few weeks.

From my experience it's like Parallels has said

At the moment the zones are split between mainline and valleys, with the concourse on a separate one.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

They don't, because I've been hearing arrival announcements for 3&4 on 1&2 in the past few weeks.

From my experience it's like Parallels has said

They do. I can tell you they do as I hear it daily.

Next.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

I'm a bit bemused by all of this. I've always found Cardiff Central very easy to navigate. People have complained about everything from bilingual announcements to flickering screens but has anyone missed a train because of any of this? It feels like a confected argument to me.

It is.

 

[Parallel]

They do. I can tell you they do as I hear it daily.

Next.

They do play on 3/4 but they also play on Platforms 0, 1 and 2. I’ve heard them myself whilst waiting for trains on Platforms 1 and 2 recently.

 

[Mintona]

Yes, I was stood on Platform 1 yesterday morning and an announcement come through about a service that was terminating on platform 3 or 4, I forget which.