Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[overthewater]

Is that not because there are no services without going into central Edinburgh to then go back out again? I know that I personally would use a service as parking at OT is a pain, and many other people would use it too.

If a proper service was trailed like every 20mins or higher at peak times from North Edinburgh to part of East Lothian or West lothian/ Ingliston Park n ride it might have a chance. It would need some backing and political will and that is not forthcoming,.

Honestly comparing a service that ran almost 30 years ago to now seems abit unfair, especially with growing businesses and housing to take into factor, yes the car
market is strong but obviously not everyone drives.

the problem is there hasn’t been a proper service linking Portobello to Seafield in forever and not via Seafield Road East but Fillyside, the 69 was a strange concept that was never going to work and the 129 in the later years ran too infrequently, I know the 12 ran down there back till 2008? And the 129 withdrew in 2015, so that’s been over 4 years without a proper link which as I stated above if done properly can work!

I still stand by my comment on how a link from Ocean Terminal to East Lothian would work, either the 106 or 140, honestly the one thing I hear from all this is the Seafield aspect with traffic, and I can’t comment or even defend that, it’s traffic, it happens. but it still seems unfair that the residents of Fillyside and Seafield don’t have a proper service linking the two areas, I know the saying use it or lose it does apply, and the 69 was withdrawn because the route planning was just silly, but y’know have an hourly service down that corridor and see if it picks up and if it proves to be popular then demand should pick up.

If Lothian are good for one thing it’s improving on old services and making them
better than you can imagine, I mentioned the 18 as an example, back in 2016 it was an hourly service that finished early providing direct links along the southern corridor, and now in 2019 it’s been extended twice, runs twice an hour, runs as late as midnight, double decker, and runs on weekends! It’s amazing that it’s taken Lothian the course of 3 years to take a service that folk didn’t imagine would do well due to it being withdrawn in the past, and now turned into one of its most popular routes, honestly if Lothian can do that with the 18, what’s to say they can’t make a service for the Seafield area on the same level? but one step st s time.

Sorry got a little carried away but you get the point!

Lothian used to operate the No18, years ago and the old management were fools, and it was themselfs that let no 18 get into bad state of affairs in the first place.

North Edinburgh is different beast it could happen but its needs to some proper work not a magic wand

 

[scotrail158713]

If a proper service was trailed like every 20mins or higher at peak times from North Edinburgh to part of East Lothian or West lothian/ Ingliston Park n ride it might have a chance. It would need some backing and political will and that is not forthcoming,.




Lothian used to operate the No18, years ago and the old management were fools, and it was themselfs that let no 18 get into bad state of affairs in the first place.

North Edinburgh is different beast it could happen but its needs to some proper work not a magic wand

I reckon they need to give a service, even just hourly, to OT a go. There’s been mentions that very few people would go to OT instead of the Fort so the service is unwarranted - but do many bus passengers going to the Fort go there because there’s no bus to OT? If it was a wet day I know I’d rather walk around OT, inside, than outside at the Fort.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I reckon they need to give a service, even just hourly, to OT a go. There’s been mentions that very few people would go to OT instead of the Fort so the service is unwarranted - but do many bus passengers going to the Fort go there because there’s no bus to OT? If it was a wet day I know I’d rather walk around OT, inside, than outside at the Fort.

as ive said before theres more at The Fort than OT, stuff at OT is mostly covered at the fort. Pretty sure 9/10 people would rather go to the fort because its better than OT and not because theres no direct bus service.

 

[scotrail158713]

Pretty sure 9/10 people would rather go to the fort because its better than OT and not because theres no direct bus service.

Even on a wet day?
Indoor shopping centres make shopping that tiny bit more appealing for me, although I hate shopping so do it as infrequently as possible.

 

[ScotRail158725]

yes, i only go shopping for new tracksuits n shoes only now and again but when i do id use the fort because it has the shop(s) i need and it has more appeal to most people for that reason. The only appeal of OT over the fort is what you mention but most people i know dont really care about getting a bit wet

 

[overthewater]

We seem to have gone of the point of commuters to shoppers.

 

[ScotRail158725]

We seem to have gone of the point of commuters to shoppers.

commuters arent the only people who use buses though... shoppers use them aswell

 

[NotATrainspott]

Why would you go to the Ocean Terminal if the St James Centre is going to have all the same shops, cinemas and more? Plus, you can get there on the same buses you already use to go to the shops on Princes Street.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Why would you go to the Ocean Terminal if the St James Centre is going to have all the same shops, cinemas and more? Plus, you can get there on the same buses you already use to go to the shops on Princes Street.

true that

 

[overthewater]

So were back to the commuters.

 

[LiviCrazy]

On the point of Ocean Terminal it’s maybe worth pointing out that it is right beside The Scottish Government’s Victoria Quay with over 2,200 civil servants. Surely that is a market in terms of commuters.

 

[ScotRail158725]

@OmniCity999 i see why lothian use yellow paint on withdrawn buses now as from this picture you can see where the yellow stripe was just taken off https://www.flickr.com/photos/45168...W-MoM4sa-F2FrVJ-2cPEjZe-GVFihk-23dyu1V-T36qWM

 

[buslad1988]

To be honest (and without being rude) I don’t get what the obsession seems to be with this East Lothian - Ocean Terminal link (and particularly involving Portobello and Seafield). If demand was there they’d be doing it already and as has been mentioned on numerous occasions the traffic in that area is a nightmare... all rush hours, any RTC’s, and days of particularly nice weather the whole area grinds to a halt! This year even 19/49’s have been diverted away from Wakefield Avenue.

It only takes one change of bus and you can get to Ocean Terminal from any ECB service and if it’s for regular travellers/commuters they’ll have ridacard anyway. There cannot possibly be a bus from every place directly to every where else. It’s important also for a bus service to be reliable otherwise what’s the point.

Any extension of the 140 is highly unlikely also as it’ll involve the use of an extra bus with the additional cost etc. which simply isn’t feasible for a service which just about breaks even... and you only have to change at Musselburgh Police Station for a 30 to Fort Kinnaird every 10-12 minutes anyway. Sundays also out of the question hence why it only runs Musselburgh - Roslin.

I’m not downplaying ideas or trying to offend anyone but the finances/pro’s and con’s have to stack up.

 

[ScotRail158725]

To be honest (and without being rude) I don’t get what the obsession seems to be with this East Lothian - Ocean Terminal link (and particularly involving Portobello and Seafield).

what ive been saying all along

 

[DunsBus]

To be honest (and without being rude) I don’t get what the obsession seems to be with this East Lothian - Ocean Terminal link (and particularly involving Portobello and Seafield). If demand was there they’d be doing it already and as has been mentioned on numerous occasions the traffic in that area is a nightmare... all rush hours, any RTC’s, and days of particularly nice weather the whole area grinds to a halt! This year even 19/49’s have been diverted away from Wakefield Avenue.

It only takes one change of bus and you can get to Ocean Terminal from any ECB service and if it’s for regular travellers/commuters they’ll have ridacard anyway. There cannot possibly be a bus from every place directly to every where else. It’s important also for a bus service to be reliable otherwise what’s the point.

Any extension of the 140 is highly unlikely also as it’ll involve the use of an extra bus with the additional cost etc. which simply isn’t feasible for a service which just about breaks even... and you only have to change at Musselburgh Police Station for a 30 to Fort Kinnaird every 10-12 minutes anyway. Sundays also out of the question hence why it only runs Musselburgh - Roslin.

I’m not downplaying ideas or trying to offend anyone but the finances/pro’s and con’s have to stack up.

You run the buses where there are houses. Okay you have the odd tenement block on Seafield Road and the houses in Craigentinny Avenue North, but other than that the area is mostly industrial, with car showrooms taking up most of Seafield Road East. And if you're going to buy a car then you're hardly likely to take a bus to the showroom!
As I mentioned earlier the old 89 seldom carried any passengers between Leith Links and Seafield. When it started at deregulation the terminus at the city end was Eastfield but, after a few years, the route was curtailed at Leith Links as passenger demand beyond there was virtually nil. It was subsequently extended to terminate outside Marine Garage, more for operational convenience than to satisfy a non-existent passenger demand. (For the last year or so of the 89's existence it was diverted north of the city centre to run via Stockbridge, Comely Bank and Crewe Toll to Granton.)

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I know some will know but a little update.

Skylink (former?) 431, 432 and 436 are at Longstone but last used on 13th, 14th and 20th. I think 431 and 432 were out at Seafield but returned. 433, 434, 435 and 437 are at Seafield.
Skylink 577-579 are also at Seafield, all 3 of which last used on 20th.

Skylink 580-590 are still in service on Skylink.

Airlink (now Skylink) 496-506 are in service at Longsone, with 507-510 at Seafield.

I would like to think they'd paint the 580-590 white to grey so the fleet is more uniformed but it's looking like, unless someone can correct me, that with 431-7 and 577-9 leaving the Skylink brand, and Airlink 496-510 coming in, that Skylink have now got 26 buses instead of 21 it had previously. Frequency increase? Or just extra cover. I know it's not enough for yet another Skylink route.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

@OmniCity999 i see why lothian use yellow paint on withdrawn buses now as from this picture you can see where the yellow stripe was just taken off https://www.flickr.com/photos/45168...W-MoM4sa-F2FrVJ-2cPEjZe-GVFihk-23dyu1V-T36qWM

Also this one - with (the now rare to see on a bus TfE still visible above the doors) https://www.flickr.com/photos/62750370@N02/48611418996 (not my photo) but running in full Lothian livery in Linlithgow, where there actually COULD be confusion given LCB on occasion use a madder colour bus in West Lothian and if this bus goes to Bathgate, Deans etc of WL ...

 

[ScotRail158725]

Also this one - with (the now rare to see on a bus TfE still visible above the doors) https://www.flickr.com/photos/62750370@N02/48611418996 (not my photo) but running in full Lothian livery in Linlithgow, where there actually COULD be confusion given LCB on occasion use a madder colour bus in West Lothian and if this bus goes to Bathgate, Deans etc of WL ...

the yellow stripe/paint has only been given to buses withdrawn since around this time last year onwards, can tell by the advert it was withdrawn December/January 2017/18 wich was before the stripe was applied. Also this is run by SD Travel who dont use doubles on public services so it wont really be mistaken

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

the yellow stripe/paint has only been given to buses withdrawn since around this time last year onwards, can tell by the advert it was withdrawn December/January 2017/18 wich was before the stripe was applied. Also this is run by SD Travel who dont use doubles on public services so it wont really be mistaken

Not quite what I was meaning. If this bus was involved in a near miss, jumped red light or such, then most folk would look at the livery and think Lothian or look at the TfE wording and assume Lothian. Confusion would be the identity of the company and could end in a PR issue.

 

[Mal]

Not quite what I was meaning. If this bus was involved in a near miss, jumped red light or such, then most folk would look at the livery and think Lothian or look at the TfE wording and assume Lothian. Confusion would be the identity of the company and could end in a PR issue.

Surely Lothian could have over painted or removed the Transport for Edinburgh slogan and any other wording of their ownership?

 

[Observer]

If Lothian are so concerned that the yellow lines aren't working they should just repaint them white before sale and add the paint cost to the sale of the vehicle.

 

[Fryschocream]

It's floor paint. It's designed to sear in to the colours so you have to replace the panels.

 

[ScotRail158725]

If Lothian are so concerned that the yellow lines aren't working they should just repaint them white before sale and add the paint cost to the sale of the vehicle.

on this first handfull it was a branding stripe, now since M-Line took theirs off they now use paint

 

[ScotRail158725]

Surely Lothian could have over painted or removed the Transport for Edinburgh slogan and any other wording of their ownership?

thy do take the branding off, sometimes the adhesive under gets dirty and shows what it said or its ripped off and marks are left

 

[TheEastCoaster]

On the ECB service 139/140 is there any reason why the Midlothian towns are under City Zone A and not Country Zone B? You’d think since those towns are out of the city they wouldn’t technically be in the same fare Zone,

I get that Lothian practically rule the bus services in Midlothian but still! Lothian City have technically 8 services in East Lothian including expresses and night Buses!

Forgetting my original point here but just think how much more beneficial it would be that Midlothian passengers could buy the £5 day ticket and travel to/from all of the East Lothian zones and back to Dalkeith and Penicuik afterwards

 

[scotrail158713]

On the ECB service 139/140 is there any reason why the Midlothian towns are under City Zone A and not Country Zone B? You’d think since those towns are out of the city they wouldn’t technically be in the same fare Zone,

I get that Lothian practically rule the bus services in Midlothian but still! Lothian City have technically 8 services in East Lothian including expresses and night Buses!

Forgetting my original point here but just think how much more beneficial it would be that Midlothian passengers could buy the £5 day ticket and travel to/from all of the East Lothian zones and back to Dalkeith and Penicuik afterwards

I think it’s just East Lothian that qualifies as Country Zones for the reason that you mentioned last. I think ECB don’t want travel to Midlothian to be integrated with East Lothian only tickets.

 

[Darklord8899]

On the ECB service 139/140 is there any reason why the Midlothian towns are under City Zone A and not Country Zone B? You’d think since those towns are out of the city they wouldn’t technically be in the same fare Zone,

I get that Lothian practically rule the bus services in Midlothian but still! Lothian City have technically 8 services in East Lothian including expresses and night Buses!

Forgetting my original point here but just think how much more beneficial it would be that Midlothian passengers could buy the £5 day ticket and travel to/from all of the East Lothian zones and back to Dalkeith and Penicuik afterwards

As ECB 139/140 were originally LB 39/40 with the standard LB £1.70 flat fare, so I'm assuming that the services were kept in line with that when they were moved over to ECB

 

[ScotRail158725]

As ECB 139/140 were originally LB 39/40 with the standard LB £1.70 flat fare, so I'm assuming that the services were kept in line with that when they were moved over to ECB

the reason they have standard fares is because they operate within the areas where the City routes operate so it would be nonsensical to use ECB fares on the 139/140.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Is the tracker playing up again or is 1111 actually on route 30?! South Bridge 10:54 and terminates Lothian Road 11:05... If it IS true, where did his route start? I am 99.999% this is a false reading again but...

 

[Darklord8899]

the reason they have standard fares is because they operate within the areas where the City routes operate so it would be nonsensical to use ECB fares on the 139/140.

Aye, that's what I was driving at.....
.... Imagine the EEN "outrage" if the services had their fares increased because of ECB fare zones