Potential solutions for overcrowding on the Hereford - Birmingham line?

[VT 390]

I there space to add a second track between Droitwich and Bromsgrove as this single stretch of line would limit any peak time capacity increases even if capacity in central Birmingham was gained through the Bordesley chords.

 

[train_lover]

I there space to add a second track between Droitwich and Bromsgrove as this single stretch of line would limit any peak time capacity increases even if capacity in central Birmingham was gained through the Bordesley chords.

A second line could be easily installed between Droitwich Spa and Bromsgrove. However the sections between signals from Droitwich and Tunnel Junction are that big you'd really really struggle to get any more trains through that section.

 

[VT 390]

A second line could be easily installed between Droitwich Spa and Bromsgrove. However the sections between signals from Droitwich and Tunnel Junction are that big you'd really really struggle to get any more trains through that section.

But if it were double track then it would not matter how big the signal sections are as you could have two trains passing each other on different lines. It would just allow the service to be increased in frequency without affecting reliability on the single line section.

 

[train_lover]

The problem is the section between Droitwich Spa and Worcester. Because the signalling sections are so big trains are often delayed as a result of the train infront.

 

[VT 390]

I know that the capacity may be an issue but until a second train can be introduced between Hereford/Worcester and Birmingham New Street could a faster service run to Birmingham Snow Hill/Moor Street from Worcester calling at either Worcester Foregate Street/Shrub Hill then Droitwich Spa, Kidderminster, Stourbridge Town, Smethwick Galton Bridge and Birmingham Snow Hill. It could even run to New Street by using the Smethwick Junction to Galton Junction route. Would this provide a competitive journey time if it could be fitted in?

 

[The Planner]

You won't get it back into New St, the reason for shifting it was to provide capacity on the Wolves corridor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The solution to this is obvious, and is exactly the same as the solution to every other overcrowding issue involving 2-car DMUs on mainlines.

The solution is to stop running short DMUs on mainlines. All services on that route should be 5-car. Problem solved. If you find that that means a few services very early and late in the day are a bit quiet, chuck out a load of cheap Advances to fill them and get people out of cars - but only on those trains.

2-car DMUs belong on branch/rural lines like Ormskirk-Preston, Bedford-Bletchley, the Cumbrian Coast (past Barrow only) and the likes. They have no place on the mainline.

 

[VT 390]

The solution to this is obvious, and is exactly the same as the solution to every other overcrowding issue involving 2-car DMUs on mainlines.

The solution is to stop running short DMUs on mainlines. All services on that route should be 5-car. Problem solved. If you find that that means a few services very early and late in the day are a bit quiet, chuck out a load of cheap Advances to fill them and get people out of cars - but only on those trains.

2-car DMUs belong on branch/rural lines like Ormskirk-Preston, Bedford-Bletchley, the Cumbrian Coast (past Barrow only) and the likes. They have no place on the mainline.

I fully agree that 5 carriage trains are needed all day on this route but why are the new 196's ordered to 2 and 4 carriages which means the lengths will be 2 or 4 carriages only and as WMR are not keeping their 153's I don't see how any 5 carriage sets can be made which will be a reduction in the number of carriages on some peak trains. Also as there are 2 carriage sets it is a possibility that if there is disruption then a 2 carriage set could be put on a busy service but if they had ordered them all to 4 or 5 coach sets this would not be a possibility.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I fully agree that 5 carriage trains are needed all day on this route but why are the new 196's ordered to 2 and 4 carriages which means the lengths will be 2 or 4 carriages only and as WMR are not keeping their 153's I don't see how any 5 carriage sets can be made which will be a reduction in the number of carriages on some peak trains. Also as there are 2 carriage sets it is a possibility that if there is disruption then a 2 carriage set could be put on a busy service but if they had ordered them all to 4 or 5 coach sets this would not be a possibility.

4 and 6 may well be workable. 2 isn't. There should be no diagrammed 2-car DMU services on any mainline. They should be an absolute minimum of 3, but there are not many services where that is adequate these days.

Short forms due to failure or disruption are a different matter; arguably 2 is better than a cancellation.

 

[VT 390]

4 and 6 may well be workable. 2 isn't. There should be no diagrammed 2-car DMU services on any mainline. They should be an absolute minimum of 3, but there are not many services where that is adequate these days.

Short forms due to failure or disruption are a different matter; arguably 2 is better than a cancellation.

Will 6 carriages be to long for platforms along the Hereford to Birmingham route?

 

[sufian123]

Will 6 carriages be to long for platforms along the Hereford to Birmingham route?

No. 6 wont fit on platforms after Gt Malvern towards Hereford. SDO helps with 4 or 5 cars.

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

If through ticketing could be introduced the passengers could change to the West Midlands Metro at Jewellery Quarter.

I know that this is a bit of a delayed reply but a Birmingham PlusBus add-on ticket also includes travel on the Midland Metro.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The solution to this is obvious, and is exactly the same as the solution to every other overcrowding issue involving 2-car DMUs on mainlines.

The solution is to stop running short DMUs on mainlines.

This, all day every day for the rest of eternity. The same applies for wedging ever more trains across the two track railway through Standedge and having solo 158s rock up to meet the Irish arrivals at Holyhead, summer trains in the Westcountry, etc. So many of the alledged problems the railway has with meeting passenger capacity can be resolved not by saying 'more services are needed' but rather 'sensible train lengths are needed'. Sadly I fear the trend is a long way from ending.

 

[Class172]

Will 6 carriages be to long for platforms along the Hereford to Birmingham route?

The sectional appendix lists the following platforms as being short of 6x23m carriages:

• Malvern Link (128m Down)
• Great Malvern (135m Down)
• Colwall (109m)
• Ledbury (100m Down; 98m Up)

As Sufian123 states, it is a shortcoming that is easily solved using SDO.

 

[sufian123]

The sectional appendix lists the following platforms as being short of 6x23m carriages:

• Malvern Link (128m Down)
• Great Malvern (135m Down)
• Colwall (109m)
• Ledbury (100m Down; 98m Up)

As Sufian123 states, it is a shortcoming that is easily solved using SDO.

Thanks for the thorough explaination.

 

[train_lover]

Ledbury both platforms are 4 cars only
Colwall is also 4 car
5 cars will now fit at all other platforms along the line.

 

[train_lover]

The sectional appendix lists the following platforms as being short of 6x23m carriages:

• Malvern Link (128m Down)
• Great Malvern (135m Down)
• Colwall (109m)
• Ledbury (100m Down; 98m Up)

As Sufian123 states, it is a shortcoming that is easily solved using SDO.

We use SDO currently. The longest service we operate across this line is a 5 car however we only have 1 rostered 5 car per day.

 

[sufian123]

We use SDO currently. The longest service we operate across this line is a 5 car however we only have 1 rostered 5 car per day.

If I’m not mistaken 0850 bhm-Hereford return 1039 Hereford-bhm Also 1350 and 1720 bhm-Hereford are 5 cars. Unless it has changed?

 

[train_lover]

If I’m not mistaken 0850 bhm-Hereford return 1039 Hereford-bhm Also 1350 and 1720 bhm-Hereford are 5 cars. Unless it has changed?

Sorry I should of been more clear in my response. You are spot on. However its the same train, theres just 1 5 car that shuttles back and forth all day.

 

[sufian123]

Sorry I should of been more clear in my response. You are spot on. However its the same train, theres just 1 5 car that shuttles back and forth all day.

I get it thanks

 

[VT 390]

A short term solution to try to increase capacity slightly on Hereford to Birmingham services could be for GWR to introduce slightly cheaper tickets between Hereford and Worcester only valid on their trains so then a few more passengers could possibly get a seat when boarding at some stations between Hereford and Worcester.

 

[Class172]

Given the frequency of the existing services, especially beyond Great Malvern towards Hereford, I don't think that would be particularly effective. Also, most of the overcrowding issues occur from Worcester northwards, which this would do nothing to alleviate.

 

[VT 390]

Given the frequency of the existing services, especially beyond Great Malvern towards Hereford, I don't think that would be particularly effective. Also, most of the overcrowding issues occur from Worcester northwards, which this would do nothing to alleviate.

This is a good point although some services are full and standing from Malvern. For example the 10:10 departure from Great Malvern is almost always full at this point and from what I have seen quite a few passengers do get off at Worcester so by introducing GWR only fares passengers could get the 09:54 or 10:48 services instead which are quite quiet before Worcester and allowing a few more passengers to have a more comfortable journey by getting a seat all the way. This idea does not solve overcrowding but it can't make it any worse.

 

[Class172]

Upon entering the West Midlands Railway website this week I was greeted with a link to the following page regarding timetable changes. It looks like they have been paying attention to passenger's comments and have put consideration into finding solutions.

Whilst there are no immediate solutions for the Hereford line, they do at least acknowledge the widely witnessed overcrowding on a number of services. The interesting point to note is the conditional promise of an extra carriage to each current service by the December timetable change, which if true will be a welcome relief by finally abolishing the two carriage services. They state this is contingent on the cascade of stock from TPE: for other lines the 350s are explicitly mentioned as being the cascaded stock but not for the Hereford line's paragraph. I don't wish to stoke up the rumour mill but could the 185s be a possibility for a short-term stock increase, before the 196s are fully delivered, as I understand they will soon be going off-lease? I mention this as I didn't think WMR any 170s operated services on the Chase Line any more, so if the cascaded stock wasn't DMUs, where would the extra carriages come from??

I also welcome the consideration of making Bromsgrove a pick-up/set-down stop to encourage passengers onto the Cross-City services and open space for passengers travelling from farther afield.

 

[VT 390]

Upon entering the West Midlands Railway website this week I was greeted with a link to the following page regarding timetable changes. It looks like they have been paying attention to passenger's comments and have put consideration into finding solutions.

Whilst there are no immediate solutions for the Hereford line, they do at least acknowledge the widely witnessed overcrowding on a number of services. The interesting point to note is the conditional promise of an extra carriage to each current service by the December timetable change, which if true will be a welcome relief by finally abolishing the two carriage services. They state this is contingent on the cascade of stock from TPE: for other lines the 350s are explicitly mentioned as being the cascaded stock but not for the Hereford line's paragraph. I don't wish to stoke up the rumour mill but could the 185s be a possibility for a short-term stock increase, before the 196s are fully delivered, as I understand they will soon be going off-lease? I mention this as I didn't think WMR any 170s operated services on the Chase Line any more, so if the cascaded stock wasn't DMUs, where would the extra carriages come from??

I also welcome the consideration of making Bromsgrove a pick-up/set-down stop to encourage passengers onto the Cross-City services and open space for passengers travelling from farther afield.

Are the 185's even cleared to operate on the WMR diesel routes?

 

[Class172]

They won’t be currently as there’s never been a need to clear them.

My personal view is that 185s are not part of the plan but thought I’d put it out there in case anyone knew more.

 

[sufian123]

WMR any 170s operated services on the Chase Lin

Yes 0800 Walsall-Birmingham and 1001 Walsall to Birmingham, 0830 bhm-Shrewsbury is 170s. Don’t know anymore.

 

[VT 390]

Is there a reason why WMR deciede to have 2tph Birmingham to Shrewsbury BEFORE sorting out overcrowding on existing services on both the Hereford and Shrewsbury routes by using the trains on these extra services to strengthen the worst overcrowded services.

 

[sufian123]

Is there a reason why WMR deciede to have 2tph Birmingham to Shrewsbury BEFORE sorting out overcrowding on existing services on both the Hereford and Shrewsbury routes by using the trains on these extra services to strengthen the worst overcrowded services.

It was planned for years. After chase line electric those be used be used to make bhm-Shrewsbury half an hourly. Nothing about Hereford line, other then new trains coming to help with those lines.

 

[VT 390]

It was planned for years. After chase line electric those be used be used to make bhm-Shrewsbury half an hourly. Nothing about Hereford line, other then new trains coming to help with those lines.

The new trains are for both routes though as the 170's are leaving WMR so they could have made Shrewsbury half hourly once they are introduced so that the worst crowded services are better. It's not as if they have even just off the Hereford service as it is as they have actually made some services shorter since may and more 153's so it seams to me that they don't really care about the Hereford route as much as there other routes.
If a half hourly service had to operate on Shrewsbury this year then the extra services should try to be 2 car as much as possible (as it is still extra to before) with the longer formations on the Hereford and existing Shrewsbury services.