Caledonian Sleeper

[leightonbd]

Three breakfasts from Jan, Feb and March this year all on ‘china’.

When were the breakfasts ever not in cardboard boxes? My last few excursions on the lowlander circa 2018 all had breakfast in boxes in both first and standard?

 

[GrimShady]

View attachment 66309
Three breakfasts from Jan, Feb and March this year all on ‘china’.

Never seen anything like that before. What class did you travel?

 

[trebor79]

Also served in china in the lounge car when I travelled in club on the Lowlander in April (new stock)

 

[MrEd]

For what it’s worth, I had my breakfast served on a china plate on a tray (with a teapot and china teacup) earlier this month, in the lounge car going north to Fort William. In my experience, it’s sometimes the case that crews will use takeaway bags and boxes for first class passengers who’ve asked for breakfast in their berths. This is perhaps not strictly speaking allowed, but it probably makes life easier for the crews (and also means that they avoid disturbing passengers in their berths by collecting back the crockery). This practice was common even in First Group days. Generally it was more common going south into London for passengers having in-berth breakfasts. Remember that the breakfast service going southbound leaves staff very stretched, as arrival into Euston is relatively early (07.49) and in the morning peak (with passengers needing to leave the train promptly), almost everyone needs to be served at the same time, and most passengers will want as much sleep as possible (most passengers definitely do not want waking until 06:15 at the very earliest). It was often suggested by regulars I knew that in First Group days, the London crews hardly ever used the crockery going south for these reasons. Going north, the service can be more relaxed and spread out, as arrival is not until 08:40 in Inverness/ 09:55 in Fort William, and many of the passengers (as much as half the train) will be leaving at assorted intermediate stations anyway. I’ve never had my breakfast served on anything other than china crockery in the lounge car, though.

If I’m in First, I always have my breakfast in the lounge car going north to Inverness or Fort William, so that I can enjoy the wonderful scenery on both routes from the Mk2 picture windows. Going south, breakfast in the berth is absolutely fine (and means that I can sleep for as long as possible). This In fact, I regard it as a blessing when the crews bring it in a paper bag going south into London, because it means that I can eat it at leisure (or even get half an hour’s more sleep and take it away to eat once I’m off the train). I must say that the presentation of the breakfast has never been a major issue for me- I think it tastes fine and it does the job. As a regular user I’d rather have more sleep than fuss about a teapot and tray. The breakfast is not haute cuisine, but for a complimentary breakfast I think it’s perfectly fine.

 

[MrEd]

I'm away on the Highland Sleeper this week from Crewe. Based on this rather frightening thread I wanted to make sure my son and I have a reasonable time. In addition to the usual things, I wonder whether anyone has suggestions for a 'survival kit'. I'm thinking: ear plugs, something for breakfast, power bank, cash, baby wipes. Can anyone recommend anything else I might need?

I think you need to take a lot of things on this thread with the proverbial pinch of salt. There’s a lot that’s very charming about the sleeper. Trust me, you’ll enjoy it (as I’ve done every time I’ve used the train on a regular basis for the past five years). OK the catering may be hit and miss at the moment due to lounge car reliability/staffing issues, so perhaps have dinner before you board (I’m sure you’ll want to anyway, as it doesn’t leave Crewe till 23.50), but the journey is still huge fun. Going to bed on a moving train is a great (and unusual) experience! Ear plugs are usually provided in the berths, and there are USB charging sockets in the berths too, so don’t worry about a power bank. Usually they’ll be able to do you at least a cup of tea (if not a breakfast) in the morning even if the lounge car is dead, but Inverness and Fort William (and I’m sure Aberdeen, though I’ve never myself visited) have very decent options for breakfast (as well as supermarkets and convenience stores) within walking distance of their stations, so I wouldn’t worry too much. You may actually prefer the breakfast in cafes etc to that offered on the train, as the ones on the train are fairly small in size (and the options are fairly limited). Also, I wouldn’t even bother bringing huge amounts of cash, as the lounge car has card payment facilities, and if the lounge car is unavailable, there’s nothing to buy anyway.

You’ll love the views if you’re travelling on the West Highland or Highland Main Lines; these are beautiful routes and the feeling of waking up in the Highlands is amazing. The old stock is great for scenic viewing because of the drop light windows, and also the Mk2 lounge cars are great for this (let’s just hope that this has power, at least, for your trip over the scenic route). You can appreciate the scenery much better from the sleeper (with opening droplights and a lounge car) than from an overcrowded day train, that’s for sure. It may not (yet) be the five-star experience it’s cracked up to be in all the marketing hype but it’s still fantastic fun as a rail journey and still (in my view) the most enjoyable rail journey in Britain. Also, you’ll have a full day to enjoy the Highlands when you get there. Have fun!

 

[GrimShady]

That's probably the reason then as all the occasions I booked breakfast it was south bound and delivered to the cabin. I should add it's been pretty rank too. I did give it a few trys to see if it was pot luck.

 

[MrEd]

Never seen anything like that before. What class did you travel?

I’m familiar with the smoked salmon and highland breakfast, but have no idea what the top one is. I’m a regular traveller and can honestly say I’ve never seen that before (it looks a bit like an eggs benedict but I don’t know). To be fair, I often just ask for the Highland breakfast or a bacon roll these days and don’t tend to look at the menu that much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For breakfasts in FW, Morrisons is right outside the station and does an excellent selection, or if you want something more American style Maccy D's is right next to it. Don't think I'd bother going further, to be honest.

If you'd prefer Spoons that's there too at the other end of the high street under the Travelodge (so perfect if you're staying there).

 

[Chrism20]

I’m familiar with the smoked salmon and highland breakfast, but have no idea what the top one is. I’m a regular traveller and can honestly say I’ve never seen that before (it looks a bit like an eggs benedict but I don’t know). To be fair, I often just ask for the Highland breakfast or a bacon roll these days and don’t tend to look at the menu that much.

It’s the eggs royale - basically eggs benedict but with salmon instead of ham/bacon. IIRC it’s only served in the lounge and not to the berth.

 

[alistairlees]

Although MrEd has said there are usb sockets in all the rooms, I don’t think that’s the case, so don’t rely on it.

 

[Hipster Dashie]

Every time I've travelled on the sleeper and ordered the Highland Breakfast, it's been delivered in a China dish with a proper pot of tea and a teacup. This has been regardless of whether I've ordered it to my berth or the lounge car.

 

[MrEd]

Although MrEd has said there are usb sockets in all the rooms, I don’t think that’s the case, so don’t rely on it.

Are there any berths which don’t (perhaps the disabled ones)? I thought all the berths in all the Mk3s had been modified with them during the summer of 2016 or so (I seem to recall that they replaced the shaver sockets in the Mk3 berths), but I could be wrong. I’ve not myself travelled in any berths which don’t have them in all the time I’ve been using the service since 2016, so thought I could rely on them...

Some tables/sofa spaces in lounge cars have conventional plug sockets for chargers, but not all- this can be hit and miss.

Of course, there may be electrical faults which mean the sockets are not operational...

 

[cambsy]

If one does a dummy booking for London-Inverness 30th sept it showing it new stock, Sunday 29th is still old stock, is this a likely or could it still be old stock all that week?

 

[Antman]

For breakfasts in FW, Morrisons is right outside the station and does an excellent selection, or if you want something more American style Maccy D's is right next to it. Don't think I'd bother going further, to be honest.

If you'd prefer Spoons that's there too at the other end of the high street under the Travelodge (so perfect if you're staying there).

Several hundred quid a ticket and either a spoons or a Morrison’s breakfast? Is my sarcasm radar off ? They have their place, but a supermarket cafe or a chance to break bread with the world’s winners in their private members club (as they start with a wee snifter), is hardly the stuff of kings....

 

[Chrism20]

Several hundred quid a ticket and either a spoons or a Morrison’s breakfast? Is my sarcasm radar off ? They have their place, but a supermarket cafe or a chance to break bread with the world’s winners in their private members club (as they start with a wee snifter), is hardly the stuff of kings....

They should just do what hotels actually do and make it room (and carriage) only with breakfast extra if you want it.

Given what they charge standard class passengers for the various breakfasts it would then be blatantly obvious that top cuisine is not what will be coming your way. In fact by doing this it may actually allow them to improve the quality of the breakfasts and improve the overall service.

And it’s probably worth pointing out that top end hotels are just as capable of delivering as crap a breakfast. I stayed in an intercontinental the other week and the staff were serving tea without lids on the pots because “The guests steal them” and that was after it took twenty minutes to get the aforementioned pot. The freshly poached eggs could have filled holes in the roads and the full service was just meh from start to finish at a cost of £28 per breakfast.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They should just do what hotels actually do and make it room (and carriage) only with breakfast extra if you want it.

I'd go with that. I'd venture that most people on the Lowlander would be quite happy not having it in favour of more sleep. For those who do want it, a proper restaurant car spread (or even a hotel style buffet) could be served in the lounge car, or perhaps the option of a takeaway bag.

Less demand (but a higher price) means more space to do it properly.

 

[jfowkes]

Honestly I would love a race to the bottom on sleeper services. I'll happily take a roll mat and sleeping bag and curl up on the floor of a pacer for a night if it cost £20.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Honestly I would love a race to the bottom on sleeper services. I'll happily take a roll mat and sleeping bag and curl up on the floor of a pacer for a night if it cost £20.

There is a race to the bottom on it - the seats, which are cheaper than a walk-up off peak return on a day train. Book the 2 side, hope for nobody next to you and curl up on the double seat?

 

[bastien]

Who has time to use the lounge in the evening, then have breakfast in the morning on the lowlander? Are these people the 4-hours-sleep-a-night high achievers we keep hearing about?

 

[Caleb2010]

The accessible berth has a bank of USB ports on the wall opposite the beds!

I think that now the remaining MK3 sleepers all have USB ports, they were installed on standard spec berths in place of the razor points!

 

[jfowkes]

There is a race to the bottom on it - the seats, which are cheaper than a walk-up off peak return on a day train. Book the 2 side, hope for nobody next to you and curl up on the double seat?

I'm travelling in a seat Crewe to Aberdeen this Friday, but I find it very difficult to sleep in a seat (if airliners are anything to go by). And yes, I do find the price pretty damn reasonable for what you get, I just wish there was a cheap "horizontal" option too.

 

[GrimShady]

I'd go with that. I'd venture that most people on the Lowlander would be quite happy not having it in favour of more sleep. For those who do want it, a proper restaurant car spread (or even a hotel style buffet) could be served in the lounge car, or perhaps the option of a takeaway bag.

Less demand (but a higher price) means more space to do it properly.

It would be better if you could join the train at 2000hrs given that they're forever trying to turf everyone out on arrival.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm travelling in a seat Crewe to Aberdeen this Friday, but I find it very difficult to sleep in a seat (if airliners are anything to go by). And yes, I do find the price pretty damn reasonable for what you get, I just wish there was a cheap "horizontal" option too.

It's probably equivalent to an old-style business class airline seat - bigger than premium economy and way bigger than economy but only limited recline. If you've been in 1st on E* before it's those seats.

 

[Bassman]

They should just do what hotels actually do and make it room (and carriage) only with breakfast extra if you want it.

Given what they charge standard class passengers for the various breakfasts it would then be blatantly obvious that top cuisine is not what will be coming your way. In fact by doing this it may actually allow them to improve the quality of the breakfasts and improve the overall service.

And it’s probably worth pointing out that top end hotels are just as capable of delivering as crap a breakfast. I stayed in an intercontinental the other week and the staff were serving tea without lids on the pots because “The guests steal them” and that was after it took twenty minutes to get the aforementioned pot. The freshly poached eggs could have filled holes in the roads and the full service was just meh from start to finish at a cost of £28 per breakfast.

I am mildly bemused at the lengthy discussion on this thread about the quality of breakfasts and service. The 'hotel on wheels' idea, then becomes the whole issue of quality.
I would far rather prefer a reliable, reasonably priced sleeper service (as alternatives to air), which is not social class/tourist orientated.
The Czech sleeper between Prague and Budapest, I used last year, offered: very good cabin accommodation, key cards, air conditioning, showers at the end of the coach, a quiet layover of two or three hours during the night in a siding to arrive not to early, and an inclusive and adequate breakfast box ( akin to an inflight box of juice, rolls, butter, cheese, liver paste, and jam). No supplements, china plates or attendants having to attend to the whims of passengers, or the accoutrements of class snobs!
This was at a reasonable price of about 40 euros.

 

[Bassman]

No supplements, china plates or attendants* having to attend to the whims of passengers, or the accoutrements of class snobs!

*In actual fact the attendant was free from catering to be able to provide excellent advice..

 

[urpert]

I am mildly bemused at the lengthy discussion on this thread about the quality of breakfasts and service. The 'hotel on wheels' idea, then becomes the whole issue of quality.
I would far rather prefer a reliable, reasonably priced sleeper service (as alternatives to air), which is not social class/tourist orientated.
The Czech sleeper between Prague and Budapest, I used last year, offered: very good cabin accommodation, key cards, air conditioning, showers at the end of the coach, a quiet layover of two or three hours during the night in a siding to arrive not to early, and an inclusive and adequate breakfast box ( akin to an inflight box of juice, rolls, butter, cheese, liver paste, and jam). No supplements, china plates or attendants having to attend to the whims of passengers, or the accoutrements of class snobs!
This was at a reasonable price of about 40 euros.

I had a similar experience on the HZPP sleeper from Munich to Zagreb (minus the showers, but Munich Hbf has excellent showers). Nothing fancy or overpromised, but the best night’s sleep I’ve ever had on a train. Waking up to Slovenia outside the window is a pleasing bonus!

 

[MrEd]

I am mildly bemused at the lengthy discussion on this thread about the quality of breakfasts and service. The 'hotel on wheels' idea, then becomes the whole issue of quality.
I would far rather prefer a reliable, reasonably priced sleeper service (as alternatives to air), which is not social class/tourist orientated.
The Czech sleeper between Prague and Budapest, I used last year, offered: very good cabin accommodation, key cards, air conditioning, showers at the end of the coach, a quiet layover of two or three hours during the night in a siding to arrive not to early, and an inclusive and adequate breakfast box ( akin to an inflight box of juice, rolls, butter, cheese, liver paste, and jam). No supplements, china plates or attendants having to attend to the whims of passengers, or the accoutrements of class snobs!
This was at a reasonable price of about 40 euros.

This was exactly how the Caledonian Sleeper was in First Group days with the comparable ‘Bargain Berths’ and otherwise competitive standard class fares. Admittedly there were no en-suites, but otherwise the level of service was very similar; friendly staff, a comfy lounge with a basic but affordable menu, no gimmicks. The breakfasts then were a bit like the Czech/Hungarian ones you describe above, even in first class- perfectly decent continental-style selections but nothing to write home about. To be honest, this was all that most of us regular travellers ever wanted from the Caledonian Sleeper. I do think that Serco/the Scottish Government/the powers that be have misunderstood the purpose of the Caledonian Sleeper somewhat, in constantly trying to market it to a discerning customer who will never be satisfied (because you cannot feasibly make a national rail service into a five-star luxury train, however hard you try), rather than the regulars/budget travellers who simply wanted a comfortable and convenient service.

 

[MrEd]

Several hundred quid a ticket and either a spoons or a Morrison’s breakfast? Is my sarcasm radar off ? They have their place, but a supermarket cafe or a chance to break bread with the world’s winners in their private members club (as they start with a wee snifter), is hardly the stuff of kings....

Don’t be put off by first appearances- Morrison’s cooked breakfasts are generally very good (certainly the ones in Fort William are)- excellent value, excellent portion size and good, fresh ingredients (you can even get Lorne sausage and tattie scones in the Fort William branch, if you like that sort of thing). They’re a lot better than some of the paltry (and decidedly sad-looking) efforts in some supposedly high-end hotels I’ve stayed in. If you’re in standard on the train, breakfast is an optional extra anyway, so you don’t lose out by not having it.

There was talk of the sleeper’s breakfast menu being improved once Mk5s were successfully operating on all routes, with items like freshly-prepared scrambled eggs and toast appearing for the first time, as the kitchens are far better equipped, but I don’t know whether this is true. This would probably only be worth doing on the Highlander. I too am sceptical of the need for cooked breakfasts on the Lowlander, but I’m sure there must be demand for them, otherwise the staff could make their lives a whole lot easier...

 

[leightonbd]

Never seen anything like that before. What class did you travel?

First. Edit: all northbound Lowlander to Edinburgh, served at Carstairs.

Top one is poached eggs with hollandaise (is that the same as eggs benedict? - miraculous, in those circumstances), middle the Highland breakfast, bottom smoked salmon and scrambled eggs. None of them that special really, though the bacon in the Highland is good, but the miracle is that you get it at all.

Tea and coffee pretty good too. In a metal pot.

I wouldn’t be averse to making breakfast a paid extra (all I really want is a hot drink). Book breakfast ahead and have it in the dining car: known quantities and no waste.

 

[Bassman]

I do think that Serco/the Scottish Government/the powers that be have misunderstood the purpose of the Caledonian Sleeper somewhat, in constantly trying to market it to a discerning customer who will never be satisfied (because you cannot feasibly make a national rail service into a five-star luxury train, however hard you try), rather than the regulars/budget travellers who simply wanted a comfortable and convenient service.

I agree whole heartedly!
Essentially it is necessary to invest to improve the infrastructure, quality and reliability of night trains as a way of a travel option both affordable and more carbon neutral.