More express buses in Glasgow?

[PaulMc7]

I've had a thought about Glasgow and the surrounding areas and as far as First go, there isn't very many express services. I want to know whether you guys think Glasgow could do with more and what could First do for routes.

So far we only have the following:

1/1A/1B/1C/1D/1E
X1
X3
X4
X8
X11
X78
X85
X87

Also First South and Central Scotland provide the X35/X36/X37.

 

[Statto]

Main problem is expresses get held up in the same traffic as stopping buses, & thus taking the same time as a stopping bus, so might as well call at all stops, expresses also limit revenue as you can only board & alight at where the bus stops at.

As anything with buses, if there's a cash flow that makes profit, there will be a service including expresses.

 

[PaulMc7]

Main problem is expresses get held up in the same traffic as stopping buses, & thus taking the same time as a stopping bus, so might as well call at all stops, expresses also limit revenue as you can only board & alight at where the bus stops at.

As anything with buses, if there's a cash flow that makes profit, there will be a service including expresses.

Yeah First being up for sale probably doesn't help with this too. I think shopping centres outside of Glasgow City Centre will end up with more express routes eventually and I'm surprised the X4 has lasted so long. Such a quiet service outside of peak times

 

[156478]

First have never been keen on running express services as they always work out less profitable than a parallel stopping route. Anyone remember the X6 and X7 to Bridge of Weir and Kilmacolm that died a slow death of cuts, the half hearted X17 to Duntocher, X55 to Braehead, X77 and X78 to Newton Mearns?
They took over and decimated the Stagecoach X1, X2, X8, X9 and X10.
They have never been interested in running their own Easterhouse to Glasgow express.
East Kilbride really could benefit from an express commuter service that runs limited stop between Glasgow and Rutherglen but its more lucrative to pick up local traffic en route.

While I don't blame them as harsh economics means it's more profitable and better uses of resources, its not much to the residents of East Kilbride, Easterhouse Baillieston, or the other far out places of the network.

 

[PaulMc7]

First have never been keen on running express services as they always work out less profitable than a parallel stopping route. Anyone remember the X6 and X7 to Bridge of Weir and Kilmacolm that died a slow death of cuts, the half hearted X17 to Duntocher, X55 to Braehead, X77 and X78 to Newton Mearns?
They took over and decimated the Stagecoach X1, X2, X8, X9 and X10.
They have never been interested in running their own Easterhouse to Glasgow express.
East Kilbride really could benefit from an express commuter service that runs limited stop between Glasgow and Rutherglen but its more lucrative to pick up local traffic en route.

While I don't blame them as harsh economics means it's more profitable and better uses of resources, its not much to the residents of East Kilbride, Easterhouse Baillieston, or the other far out places of the network.

Yeah Easterhouse and East Kilbride could definitely do with one. It's a shame that they got rid of the X81 too as Auchinairn and Robroyston residents lost out massively

 

[CM]

Yeah Easterhouse and East Kilbride could definitely do with one. It's a shame that they got rid of the X81 too as Auchinairn and Robroyston residents lost out massively

Easterhouse already has the frequent Stagecoach X19 so I doubt another express along the same route is needed. Also, the X8 and X9/X10 were cut back to what they are today because a lot of the areas they served were in the process of being demolished meaning people were having to move elsewhere and the routes were basically serving wasteland with no houses.

 

[PaulMc7]

Easterhouse already has the frequent Stagecoach X19 so I doubt another express along the same route is needed. Also, the X8 and X9/X10 were cut back to what they are today because a lot of the areas they served were in the process of being demolished meaning people were having to move elsewhere and the routes were basically serving wasteland with no houses.

With the amount of new builds and the size of Easterhouse competition could probably still do well even against the X19. Silverburn could definitely be a key in adding to what buses are needed. Surprised the X8 doesn't run later because of a change to shopping habits and work patterns

 

[Scott mac]

With the amount of new builds and the size of Easterhouse competition could probably still do well even against the X19. Silverburn could definitely be a key in adding to what buses are needed. Surprised the X8 doesn't run later because of a change to shopping habits and work patterns

First have tried the x19 before against stagecoach x19 and it didn't work then

 

[PaulMc7]

First have tried the x19 before against stagecoach x19 and it didn't work then

Could even extend it to Baillieston via Easterhouse Road

 

[KGGXXXY]

Should this discussion not have been part of the existing thread, its a very similar theme of what improvements First could make in Glasgow https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ways-to-improve-the-first-glasgow-network.173316/

 

[PaulMc7]

Should this discussion not have been part of the existing thread, its a very similar theme of what improvements First could make in Glasgow https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ways-to-improve-the-first-glasgow-network.173316/

Thought it would easier to start new since nobody had really engaged with the other one and more people might notice it

 

[CM]

First have tried the x19 before against stagecoach x19 and it didn't work then

First's X19 was actually inherited from the days when Stagecoach had just started in Glasgow as Magicbus in the late 80s using Routemasters. When Stagecoach sold that operation to Kelvin Central it was ran by them for a short period before before SBL acquired Kelvin Central and the route moved to the GCT operation. When SBL/Kelvin/GCT all became part of First it was operated using a mixture of then new Alexander bodied B10Ms and Alexander bodied B6LEs. By this time Stagecoach were back competing on the X19 albeit on a different route which operated directly to Easterhouse via the M8 instead of going via Garthamlock. IIRC First withdrew the X19 when the Overground started with it becoming the 19 which replaced service 2 between Easterhouse and the City Centre with the X19 going full circle back to Stagecoach who have ran it ever since.

Just a note though, in the days of baby Stagecoach/Kelvin/GCT the route was numbered 19 and only became X19 after the First Takeover. The route also ran to Castlemilk numbered as 19 for a while before being curtailed and numbered X19.

Most of that is from my own memory from using the X19 from it's Magicbus days right up until First Glasgow withdrew their version as I used it to both visit my Grandparents in Craigend and then when me and mum moved to Garthamlock, it was a cheap and fast way to get in/out of the City Centre as First charged 50p return at the time.

 

[Scott mac]

First's X19 was actually inherited from the days when Stagecoach had just started in Glasgow as Magicbus in the late 80s using Routemasters. When Stagecoach sold that operation to Kelvin Central it was ran by them for a short period before before SBL acquired Kelvin Central and the route moved to the GCT operation. When SBL/Kelvin/GCT all became part of First it was operated using a mixture of then new Alexander bodied B10Ms and Alexander bodied B6LEs. By this time Stagecoach were back competing on the X19 albeit on a different route which operated directly to Easterhouse via the M8 instead of going via Garthamlock. IIRC First withdrew the X19 when the Overground started with it becoming the 19 which replaced service 2 between Easterhouse and the City Centre with the X19 going full circle back to Stagecoach who have ran it ever since.

Most of that is from my own memory from using the X19 from it's Magicbus days right up until First Glasgow withdrew their version as I used it to both visit my Grandparents in Craigend and then when me and mum moved to Garthamlock, it was a cheap and fast way to get in/out of the City Centre as First charged 50p return at the time.

No the 19 was easterhouse to town then when Kelvin took over the joined the 19 and 20 together and it was the 19 easterhouse to castlemilk when stagecoach started the x19 which they have today first started a x19 as well in competition with stagecoach which didn't last long

 

[CM]

No the 19 was easterhouse to town then when Kelvin took over the joined the 19 and 20 together and it was the 19 easterhouse to castlemilk when stagecoach started the x19 which they have today first started a x19 as well in competition with stagecoach which didn't last long

The 19 that First ran between Easterhouse and Castlemilk was still the 19 that they inherited from Kelvin/GCT as it took the same route from Easterhouse via Garthamlock and the M8 Motorway then the 20 route to Castlemilk. First then dropped the City to Castlemilk section and re-numbered the 19 to the X19. First's X19 was not a brand new route, it was merely a re-numbered and curtailed X19.

 

[Scott mac]

No the 19 was easterhouse to town then when Kelvin took over the joined the 19 and 20 together and it was the 19 easterhouse to castlemilk when stagecoach started the x19 which they have today first started a x19 as well in competition with stagecoach which didn't last

The 19 that First ran between Easterhouse and Castlemilk was still the 19 that they inherited from Kelvin/GCT as it took the same route from Easterhouse via Garthamlock and the M8 Motorway then the 20 route to Castlemilk. First then dropped the City to Castlemilk section and re-numbered the 19 to the X19.

Don't think the did as they was a time when a was in easterhouse with the stagecoach x19 a seven both 19 and x19 the 19 went a different way as it changed to a 43 in town

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Colin M's summary on the history of Easterhouse express routes seem as good as spot on to me.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

I thought the CityLink 900 stopped at Baillieston lights, maybe not all journeys. At least that gives them some sort of express but probably not much quicker than the 38E.

 

[Scott mac]

Colin M's summary on the history of Easterhouse express routes seem as good as spot on to me.

He could be right

 

[CM]

Don't think the did as they was a time when a was in easterhouse with the stagecoach x19 a seven both 19 and x19 the 19 went a different way as it changed to a 43 in town

The First X19 was dropped when the Overground was introduced and changed to the 19 which replaced the 2. The 2 ran via Garthamlock, Craigend, Ruchazie, Provamill, Royston, Royal Infirmary and Glasgow Cross to the City Centre. When the 19 was introduced to replace the 2 it operated along the same route. When the 11 was re-directed to Robroyston instead of Craigend, the 19 was re-routed to replace it and I belive this is when it was interworked with the 43 in the City Centre as the 19 was then routed to operate via Cathedral Street and Union Street to Glasgow Cross. The 19 normally changed into a Craigend bound 43 at Cathedral Street(later Killermont St) and the 43 would change into a 19 at Glasgow Cross. I used both routes regularly as a teenager living in Garthamlock as back then there was very little to do and both me and a couple of friends having First Cards to get to/from school put them to good use in the evenings, usually catching a 19 from Mossvale road and staying on it back to Craigend when it changed to a 43 in town.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

East Kilbride really could benefit from an express commuter service that runs limited stop between Glasgow and Rutherglen but its more lucrative to pick up local traffic en route.

East Kilbride limited stop services didn't do very well before. Central Scottish tried the X2-X3, then a few years later Stagecoach with X1 and X2 with Plaxton Coaches then First tried peak services X11 and X12.

 

[PaulMc7]

I thought the CityLink 900 stopped at Baillieston lights, maybe not all journeys. At least that gives them some sort of express but probably not much quicker the 38E.

Yeah the 900 is every 30mins currently into Baillieston. However, because it's coaches and only really covers a couple of bus stops it would be probably beneficial to have low access buses for older people and it could even run down to the current 2 terminus to give more residents a chance to use it. There's also a lot of new houses being built there too so surely it will need more buses in the future

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Should this discussion not have been part of the existing thread, its a very similar theme of what improvements First could make in Glasgow https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ways-to-improve-the-first-glasgow-network.173316/

I agree with this. Kind of getting a bit out of hand.

 

[PaulMc7]

East Kilbride limited stop services didn't do very well before. Central Scottish tried the X2-X3, then a few years later Stagecoach with X1 and X2 with Plaxton Coaches then First tried peak services X11 and X12.

Surprising considering how large an area East Kilbride is and also the 31 and 18 take about 55 mins each so a quicker alternative would surely be something that could maybe work now

 

[PaulMc7]

I agree with this. Kind of getting a bit out of hand.

This forum has already had more attention and discussion than that one so by choosing to create a new one it's probably helped

 

[KGGXXXY]

This forum has already had more attention and discussion than that one so by choosing to create a new one it's probably helped

I would possibly rename this thread as "Express Bus Services in Glasgow" or something similar as it has evolved into a wider discussion about other operators.

 

[PaulMc7]

I would possibly rename this thread as "Express Bus Services in Glasgow" or something similar as it has evolved into a wider discussion about other operators.

Yeah will certainly do that although I do think it's only natural to compare to previous and existing services

 

[156478]

Yeah Easterhouse and East Kilbride could definitely do with one. It's a shame that they got rid of the X81 too as Auchinairn and Robroyston residents lost out massively

The X81 is the prime example of First and their way of thinking to express motorway services- too much hassle running them on the motorway where they get stuck in jams and they carry more people on the all stop routes via Springburn or Provanmill Road instead. Again - financially understandable in the current financial climate, but not good for journey times.

It's the residents of East Kilbride that have it the absolute worst. However I cant imagine if many people would put themselves through such a long journey 5 days a week to Glasgow from Greenhills, brand spanking high spec buses with wifi and good seats or not.

I've always been suprised the Scotland East Balfron services are not limited stop, but then again the Glasgow City local passengers probably keep this service just above water.



The X77 and X78 has always been an interesting one for me introduced during the Stagecoach Bus War (I cant remember if First introduced this as a pre-emptive strike before Stagecoach introduced the 4A and 4B or if it was in response to the 4A and 4B- it was over 20 years ago!!!) .

X77 every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday. Bus Station (with some of the peaks up and down from Charing Cross) then a very bizzare route via Tradeston and the M77 to Junction 1, non stop from there to Pollokshaws West station, Orchard Park, Woodfarm, Mearns Cross and then a loop around Crookfur. I say it was bizzare- I can see why it was routed this way, to give the prestige of an express route during the day to Newton Mearns and routing it via Orchard Park and Woodfarm to try and pick up a few more people along the way to try and make it profitable. It was run with cheap fares, with Barbie or newish buses in competiton so you can see why it didnt last.

X78 Charing Cross, Tradeston, M8 and M77, Crookfur, Mearns Cross to Broom. 4 commuter journeys each way.
The X77 didnt last long, and over the years the X78 has just about survived- two journeys in and one out- that will eventually get withdrawn at some point.

 

[PaulMc7]

The X81 is the prime example of First and their way of thinking to express motorway services- too much hassle running them on the motorway where they get stuck in jams and they carry more people on the all stop routes via Springburn or Provanmill Road instead. Again - financially understandable in the current financial climate, but not good for journey times.

It's the residents of East Kilbride that have it the absolute worst. However I cant imagine if many people would put themselves through such a long journey 5 days a week to Glasgow from Greenhills, brand spanking high spec buses with wifi and good seats or not.

I've always been suprised the Scotland East Balfron services are not limited stop, but then again the Glasgow City local passengers probably keep this service just above water.



The X77 and X78 has always been an interesting one for me introduced during the Stagecoach Bus War (I cant remember if First introduced this as a pre-emptive strike before Stagecoach introduced the 4A and 4B or if it was in response to the 4A and 4B- it was over 20 years ago!!!) .

X77 every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday. Bus Station (with some of the peaks up and down from Charing Cross) then a very bizzare route via Tradeston and the M77 to Junction 1, non stop from there to Pollokshaws West station, Orchard Park, Woodfarm, Mearns Cross and then a loop around Crookfur. I say it was bizzare- I can see why it was routed this way, to give the prestige of an express route during the day to Newton Mearns and routing it via Orchard Park and Woodfarm to try and pick up a few more people along the way to try and make it profitable. It was run with cheap fares, with Barbie or newish buses in competiton so you can see why it didnt last.

X78 Charing Cross, Tradeston, M8 and M77, Crookfur, Mearns Cross to Broom. 4 commuter journeys each way.
The X77 didnt last long, and over the years the X78 has just about survived- two journeys in and one out- that will eventually get withdrawn at some point.

Yeah there was a lot of backlash to the X81 being cut at the time. Yeah my girlfriend's parents live in Greenhills so between having to get a 1 into the city centre and then an 18 just to get there we end up going early in the day and even then it still takes too long. The B10 has always been so quiet when I've seen it beyond Bearsden tbh but Milngavie even seems to be a struggle these days so I can understand why they haven't made it limited stop. Yeah Newton Mearns seems like an awful area for people that don't drive. The 38 seems like the best they've got and will probably be only left with that as the 4 keeps getting cuts

 

[awsnews]

The big problem for most express bus services into Glasgow is having to compete with the rail network which has had a number of improvements in recent years. The reduced journey times mean it is much more attractive, even it the cost is greater. If anything new were to come along it needs to do something that the rail network doesn't.

 

[tbtc]

First have never been keen on running express services as they always work out less profitable than a parallel stopping route. Anyone remember the X6 and X7 to Bridge of Weir and Kilmacolm that died a slow death of cuts, the half hearted X17 to Duntocher, X55 to Braehead, X77 and X78 to Newton Mearns?
They took over and decimated the Stagecoach X1, X2, X8, X9 and X10.
They have never been interested in running their own Easterhouse to Glasgow express.
East Kilbride really could benefit from an express commuter service that runs limited stop between Glasgow and Rutherglen but its more lucrative to pick up local traffic en route.

While I don't blame them as harsh economics means it's more profitable and better uses of resources, its not much to the residents of East Kilbride, Easterhouse Baillieston, or the other far out places of the network.

The above is true but in fairness to First, they have revamped the north western Glasgow services with some of the longer services diverted via the A814 - the old 16/44 to Knightswood are now the X4, the 9 to Drumchapel is the 1C, the far end of the 62 (or 66?) is now the 1D... that area has had more of a transformation than most of the rest of Glasgow. The X85/X87 have replaced many of the slow journeys on the Bishopsbriggs corridor towards Kilsyth.

I guess the question of any "express" service is whether it replaces many/all of the journeys on conventional services into Glasgow and whether you use many additional resources - for example, if there's to be an express from East Kilbride into Glasgow then is there significant enough demand for (e.g.) East Kilbride - Rutherglen services for some kind of "legacy" service to continue? Or would it end up like Knightswood, where the X4 runs "fast" into Glasgow but there's no service from Knightswood to the Byres Road/ University area (that the 16/44/44A used to provide).

The extended M74 seems like it'd have been an opportunity to revamp services but... no... there are lots of stopping services to Lanarkshire each hour but only a tiny amount via the M80 (the X1 and X11).