When were refreshment trolleys first introduced and on which routes?

[yorksrob]

A bit earlier than that, I thought, about 1980/81, after which the SE Division had no on-train catering at all (despite having some journeys of up to 2 hours whereas the neighbouring Central Division then still had buffet cars even on some journeys of only an hour such as London-Brighton) until trolleys were introduced on the SE in about 1986.

It could have been. I don't ever remember seeing a BEP on the South Eastern in my travelling days !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It could have been. I don't ever remember seeing a BEP on the South Eastern in my travelling days !

Just grabbed "Southern Electric" by G T Moody of the shelves (1979 edition) - quotes that the "new" services at xx40 from Victoria to Ramsgate conveyed buffet services in the Ramsgate portion - bar the 1140 departure - all peak up commuter trains had buffets from Ramsgate , - (bar the 0630)

We are talking 1958 here.

 

[yorksrob]

Just grabbed "Southern Electric" by G T Moody of the shelves (1979 edition) - quotes that the "new" services at xx40 from Victoria to Ramsgate conveyed buffet services in the Ramsgate portion - bar the 1140 departure - all peak up commuter trains had buffets from Ramsgate , - (bar the 0630)

We are talking 1958 here.

Sounds like a much more pleasant commute than mine !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Sounds like a much more pleasant commute than mine !

Well I did Thameslink from 1989 to 1996 - and again from 1999 to 2015. No air con and so on - done my penance in advance.

This whole buffet car scenario is quite fascinating - running into say Cannon Street with a catering vehicle in the am peak as "normal" - and probably tiny revenue , if any on the outwards. Ditto "Clacton Electrics" with all day griddle cars. At seat full breakfast service from Southampton in a 4-REP. Hastings line buffet cars. Where did things change ?

However , and off topic , full buffet cars on the Inverness to Wick / Thurso lines in MK1 days. Unbelievable.

 

[yorksrob]

Well I did Thameslink from 1989 to 1996 - and again from 1999 to 2015. No air con and so on - done my penance in advance.

This whole buffet car scenario is quite fascinating - running into say Cannon Street with a catering vehicle in the am peak as "normal" - and probably tiny revenue , if any on the outwards. Ditto "Clacton Electrics" with all day griddle cars. At seat full breakfast service from Southampton in a 4-REP. Hastings line buffet cars. Where did things change ?

However , and off topic , full buffet cars on the Inverness to Wick / Thurso lines in MK1 days. Unbelievable.

Presumably they would have sold a lot of cups of tea !

At least Wick/Thurso is a long way with a captive audience.

 

[Journeyman]

Well I did Thameslink from 1989 to 1996 - and again from 1999 to 2015. No air con and so on - done my penance in advance.

This whole buffet car scenario is quite fascinating - running into say Cannon Street with a catering vehicle in the am peak as "normal" - and probably tiny revenue , if any on the outwards. Ditto "Clacton Electrics" with all day griddle cars. At seat full breakfast service from Southampton in a 4-REP. Hastings line buffet cars. Where did things change ?

However , and off topic , full buffet cars on the Inverness to Wick / Thurso lines in MK1 days. Unbelievable.

This has been done to death elsewhere, but mainly the lavish provision of buffet and restaurant services was down to the belief that you'd die if you didn't eat a huge plate of meat and two veg every few hours.

It's mainly changing habits and the much better provision of catering outlets on stations that has done for on-train catering on shorter routes.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

This has been done to death elsewhere, but mainly the lavish provision of buffet and restaurant services was down to the belief that you'd die if you didn't eat a huge plate of meat and two veg every few hours.

It's mainly changing habits and the much better provision of catering outlets on stations that has done for on-train catering on shorter routes.

Indeed - and societal eating habits are rather different to say the least from the 1950's (which must have been the high point of the provision of on train catering , if not for quality)

There is a magnificent book on "Pullman" by Julian Morrell - which shows typical Pullman buffet menu's - carefully written to say "toast with curled butter and preserves" , "pan fried eggs with farm bacon" - etc. Sounds very smart - but a lot of it came out of a tin or a jar.

 

[St Rollox]

There were instances of entire crews being summarily dismissed for "entrepreneurial" reasons , taking own stock in to serve was a very common thing. P G Rayner quoted an appeal for a steward who was caught with about 6 pounds of cheese in his carry on bag. On being challenged he said it was his mother;s shopping he had taken to work , and as a diligent employee dipped in to serve the hungry public. The management response was "Your mother likes cheese I take it" - due process followed.

But then the pub trade is / was just as bad.

Nearly 30 years ago i turned up at Glasgow Central to get on the London Sleeper.
As i walking along the platform a schoolmate in railway uniform was coming towards me handcuffed with two Glasgow cops at each side of him.
Could only really say hello under the circumstances.
He'd being doing the old whisky miniature trick.
One for you one for him.
Or maybe one for you and three for him.
Admitted to me years later he never touched his wages for five years.
Lost his job and was fined (luckily)
Think his wife opened a pub in Glasgow the following week.
Saw him a few days ago so it didn't do him any harm.

 

[Colin1501]

Slightly off topic perhaos, but travelling in the 1970s on both Kent Coast and Waterloo to Portsmouth services, I remember the steward (from the buffet car) walking through the train with a coffee pot and plastic cups on a tray.