Off peak train tickets to London - using them on 'peak' services - C4

[mawallace]

I was looking at planner and it offered me a 'off peak' ticket - restriction code C4

What was happening is that I am starting the journey on the branch line. Normally I would buy a 'peak' ticket as the journey takes place during the peak.

But, the train on the branch reaches Cambridge during the 'peak' - but the train I take from Cambridge arrives in London off peak.

The restriction says "Not valid on trains timed to arrive in London Liverpool Street or London Kings Cross after 04:29 and before 10:00.". So...

Is there anything to stop me buying the 'off peak' ticket - travelling to Cambridge during the peak time - having a cup of coffee at Cambridge for 1/2 an hour, then arriving in London after 10am - which is offpeak.

Seems to be the restriction says - but can't help think it could be challenged.

Most tickets on the branch have the B4 code attached - not C4

 

[Bletchleyite]

C1 is "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 07:15" and B4 is "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 08:45." - so I'm not sure where you are getting this from?

 

[mawallace]

C1 is "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 07:15" and B4 is "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 08:45." - so I'm not sure where you are getting this from?

Sorry its code C4 . Ive amended my post

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry its code C4 . Ive amended my post

Ah OK.

C4 reads "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 which arrive at London Terminals or Kensington Olympia before 10:00." and does not bar break of journey. Therefore what you propose (using a train that does not go to London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at all at any time, then breaking your journey before boarding the train that does) is permissible, yes.

 

[JonathanH]

Ah OK.

C4 reads "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 which arrive at London Terminals or Kensington Olympia before 10:00." and does not bar break of journey. Therefore what you propose (using a train that does not go to London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at all at any time, then breaking your journey before boarding the train that does) is permissible, yes.

That is not how it is applied - the correct interpretation (and the one used in the additional restrictions used in journey planners) is that you can only leave your original station on a connecting train that arrives in time for the train arriving in London at 1000 or later and not one which arrives in time to make an earlier connection. Earlier connections involving break of journey are not permitted.

However, I assume in this case, you are asking whether the 0752 from Newmarket can be seen as an off-peak train even though it arrives in Cambridge at 0817 and there are four peak trains that leave for London before the first off-peak one does. I would expect Greater Anglia to have a policy on this and for staff to have been briefed as this position will have applied for some time. It might be worth asking for clarification.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is not how it is applied - the correct interpretation (and the one used in the additional restrictions used in journey planners) is that you can only leave your original station on a connecting train that arrives in time for the train arriving in London at 1000 or later and not one which arrives in time to make an earlier connection. Earlier connections involving break of journey are not permitted.

Can you please provide evidence of this being the case e.g. a quote from The Manual etc? Journey planners do not take into account break of journey in any form so these are not a reliable indication of how anything might apply to that. The text restriction is quite clear; it cannot be applied to any train that calls at neither of the two stations listed.

@yorkie you tend to know these things?

 

[Bletchleyite]

By the way you can see the "additional restrictions" on e.g. here:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=BSE&dest=1072&rte=135&tkt=OPF

and they do not include anything about (a) arriving at Cambridge, or (b) departing from the branch station.

 

[JonathanH]

By the way you can see the "additional restrictions" on e.g. here:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=BSE&dest=1072&rte=135&tkt=OPF

and they do not include anything about (a) arriving at Cambridge, or (b) departing from the branch station.

You can get 'trainscanbecheaper' to offer an itinerary with a 30 minute wait at the off-peak price but I still think you would need to encourage the guard on the connecting train that this was what you were going to do. I agree that there is no specific restriction on arrival at Cambridge or departure from the branch station.

 

[yorkie]

I was looking at planner and it offered me a 'off peak' ticket - restriction code C4

What was happening is that I am starting the journey on the branch line. Normally I would buy a 'peak' ticket as the journey takes place during the peak.

But, the train on the branch reaches Cambridge during the 'peak' - but the train I take from Cambridge arrives in London off peak.

The restriction says "Not valid on trains timed to arrive in London Liverpool Street or London Kings Cross after 04:29 and before 10:00.". So...

Is there anything to stop me buying the 'off peak' ticket - travelling to Cambridge during the peak time - having a cup of coffee at Cambridge for 1/2 an hour, then arriving in London after 10am - which is offpeak.

Seems to be the restriction says - but can't help think it could be challenged.

Most tickets on the branch have the B4 code attached - not C4

What's the exact itinerary please?

 

[JBuchananGB]

Exact itinerary would be helpful, but for example you could catch the 0733 from Bury St. Edmunds to Cambridge arriving 0819, and then you have a choice of the 0848 to Liverpool Street, due there at 10.15 on which an off-peak ticket is valid, or the 0849 to Kings Cross, due there at 09.46 on which the off-peak ticket is not valid. So your off peak ticket is unquestionably valid on the 0733, if your intention is to catch the 0848 to Liverpool Street.

 

[mawallace]

I was thinking of the 7.33 - travelling to London St Pancreas - arriving at 9.44. I thought that would be valid as it does nor arrive at either Kings Cross or Liverpool Street so no restriction. However BR fares says that I cannot arrive at Stevenage until 9.15; that means that I would have to wait at Cambridge until the 8.54 departure to London St Pancreas - arriving there at 9.59 - gets me in the correct side of London earlier.

 

[JBuchananGB]

the GA app will sell the off peak fare for the arrival at St. Pancras at 0959, so that will be fine.

 

[mawallace]

Had a play and it seems that some train websites do not enforce the restriction correctly. As an example, it suggests that the 6.33 BSE to St Pancras is valid - I guess it is but the restriction does say "
Not valid to arrive STEVENAGE 0230–0915 on any TOC" in my view the planner is wrong!

Interestingly - the above journey is valid per GA website - but not the GA app!

 

[yorkie]

Had a play and it seems that some train websites do not enforce the restriction correctly. As an example, it suggests that the 6.33 BSE to St Pancras is valid - I guess it is but the restriction does say "
Not valid to arrive STEVENAGE 0230–0915 on any TOC" in my view the planner is wrong!

Interestingly - the above journey is valid per GA website - but not the GA app!

This isn't a valid itinerary for booking engines to offer, due to the electronic data barring arrivals into Stevenage at that time. It's a data issue; the journey planner itself isn't 'wrong'.