when the off peak is cheaper why would you buy an advance?

[Percy]

hi

sorry if this is a basic question that has been asked loads before.

i understand the ticket system and when tickets are valid etc, but something confuses me. I have recently started using the train more, particularly to travel between buxton and london. Where possible i will look to book advance tickets to save money, but quite often the price of the advance tickets has increased to be more than the off peak ticket at the same time, so i buy the off peak, and when this happens it is great as it gives me more flexibility about the train time.

what i don't get is why they advertise advance tickets for sale at a price greater than the off peak ticket, surely you would buy the off peak every time as it is the more flexible product?

cheers
Percy

 

[90019]

The cynic in me (And almost certainly Yorkie as well) says that it's to screw those who aren't aware of this out of more money than they have to pay.

 

[tony_mac]

Realistically, yes, you always want the off-peak. I don't think these Advance tickets should be offered for sale; it's simply an attempt to make money out of people being confused by the booking system.

Looking at Friday as an example, the only advance tickets arriving between 12:30 and 10:30pm cost over £20 more than an off-peak single that would be valid. That's ridiculous, and I don't know how they can justify it.


There are some, very limited, circumstances where it might be better - the only one I can think if is a first-class advance ticket with a 16-25 railcard might then be cheaper than the off-peak ticket which doesn't get a railcard discount.

 

[trickyvegas]

The cynic in me (And almost certainly Yorkie as well) says that it's to screw those who aren't aware of this out of more money than they have to pay.

I would agree with this, probably especially effective with occasional users who are used to this model of ticketing with "low-cost" airlines.

The only reason I can think of is the need to guarantee a seat on a busy service (I don't know if this can be done with the off-peak).

 

[jopsuk]

(I don't know if this can be done with the off-peak).

There will be quotas- the "Advance" tickets, being limited in number, will all have seats available to them, with the remaining reservable seats being available for booking with flexible tickets. If no seat reservations are avilable with flexible ticket types, but there are still Advance tickets on sale, then those Advance tickets will guarentee seats.

 

[trickyvegas]

If no seat reservations are available with flexible ticket types, but there are still Advance tickets on sale, then those Advance tickets will guarentee seats.

That makes a bit of sense, as an operator I would want to make sure my direct customers are taken care of seat-wise before anyone else.

 

[yorkie]

what i don't get is why they advertise advance tickets for sale at a price greater than the off peak ticket, surely you would buy the off peak every time as it is the more flexible product?

Because they don't care about their customers.

Many booking sites now default to showing 2 singles rather than 1 return, and this encourages people to pay a similar price (sometimes more, as you say) to the return, but with much less flexibility. If they then board the wrong train, that's extra income for the TOCs that engage in this dubious behaviour.

If an AP is more, the same, or a few quid less than a walk-on ticket, I'll buy the walk on ticket. It's worth paying more for extra flexibility, let alone paying less!

 

[Capybara]

This kind of relates to the subject of my first post on this forum a few months ago which related to the difficulty in using these websites to establish simple fares between two places. If, for example, I wanted to establish the cost of an off-peak return to Cardiff from Paddington, these sites won’t allow me to do it without me supplying supplementary information such as date and time of travel, etc and then they give ‘options’. I don’t want options I want to know how much it will cost; I can sort out the rest myself.

I just wonder how much the average punter actually knows about fares and fare structures. Not a great deal probably and why should they? Many will probably approach these sites and assume that the price quoted is the price for that specific journey without realising that there are walk-up fares or, at least, walk-up fares which, although expensive for what they are, aren’t the headline-grabbing peak fares that always get quoted whenever there is a news story on fare increases and the like. And if that fare happens to be higher than the off-peak walk-up fare there’s a good chance they will pay it. All part of the progressive airlinisation of rail travel which companies appear to be seeking.

 

[142094]

Just had a look for a single advance to Liverpool from York tomorrow, and the 1st class ticket is actually cheaper than the standard class!

 

[wintonian]

Advance tickets that are more expensive than walk on fares exist because some pepole think that if it's an advance fare it must be cheeper than one bought on the day, but for whatever reason don't then go and atualy compare them thus alowing the TOC's to profiter from unsuspecting punters.

I am also a cynic.

 

[bnm]

This thread highlights one of the reasons why I prefer to buy my online tickets from a retailer using the 'Mixing Deck' booking engine (EastCoast, Southern, London Midland, Southeastern).

Whilst still not perfect, it does however allow you to see what trains are available for a given fare, or what fares are available for a given train, with just a click on the appropriate fare/train. Any unavailable train/fare is then greyed out. Also with its single page format (albeit with a bit of scrolling occasionally) it is much more user friendly than the 'Trainline' based retailers, who force to switch between different pages for single or return products, making direct comparisons more difficult.

Agreed, this doesn't answer tthe OP's original query re Off-Peak single being cheaper than ADV, but hey, fares anomolies are nothing new.

 

[bb21]

Just had a look for a single advance to Liverpool from York tomorrow, and the 1st class ticket is actually cheaper than the standard class!

Happened last year with EMT a lot on one of the peak (0815 I think) Leicester-London journey. For standard class the advance fare is usually something just under £30 Y-P whereas the First Class advance would be something stupid like £17.50 or just over £20. I managed to get my HOD to agree to first class travel for me quite a few times on that basis.

 

[LondonLarry]

Advance tickets that are more expensive than walk on fares exist because some pepole think that if it's an advance fare it must be cheeper than one bought on the day, but for whatever reason don't then go and atualy compare them thus alowing the TOC's to profiter from unsuspecting punters.

I am also a cynic.

You're only a little cynical! When SWT introduced their Advance fares, if you bought two of the highest priced ones, it would cost you less than an SVR for the same journey. They seem to have stopped doing that now....

 

[transportphoto]

I know off topic...

How often does SWT check tickets onboard?

I know their conductors are non-commercial but how often do RPI's board on longer ML services?

 

[yorkie]

I know off topic...

How often does SWT check tickets onboard?

How long is a piece of string? A fast Waterloo to Winchester isn't comparable to a Waterloo to Waterloo calling at every shack. So the answer will be "it varies"

I know their conductors are non-commercial but how often do RPI's board on longer ML services?

That makes no sense. By definition a 'conductor' is commercial! Their guards are non-commercial on suburban routes, and they tend to do stuff like read the 'paper between stops from what I've seen! Quite different to the 'proper' guards on 'main line' services who do check tickets!

 

[royaloak]

I take a fence (sic) to that Yorkie, I NEVER read the paper between stations (too many big words ), I just did all the sudokus I could find and getting them done with 3 minutes between stations took some doing, even got into the killer ones

 

[LondonLarry]

I know off topic...

How often does SWT check tickets onboard?

I know their conductors are non-commercial but how often do RPI's board on longer ML services?

Far more frequently than London Midland!

 

[BlythPower]

Caught LM's 16:48 Euston to Northampton yesterday and the gripper was in a frenzy excessing all the folk who were on off-peak tickets. Even tried to ching the wife and I for our (valid) tickets returning to Coventry.