Whats happening during North London Line closure

[Minstral25]

The big closure of the North London Line starts tomorrow for four months for large scale works rebuilding the Camden Town to Stratford section.

Does anyone know what works will be completed before the reopening in July. Stuff I am guessing?
• Four coach length platforms at all stations
• Rebuilding of Boleyn Road bridge at Dalston Kingsland
• Replacing all 313’s with 378’s
• All 378’s to be converted to 4 coach

Possible
• Moving NLL tracks to northern side between Dalston Kingsland to Highbury (track work was already laid almost into Highbury Station on last day)
• If above presumably Dalston Kingsland to Highbury (and beyond) will become AC power – I’m guessing this is the plan and why the 3rd rail East London Line will run on separate tracks to Highbury
• Reconnect spur to Finsbury Park
• Put shelters up and clean the stations
• Install more seats into 378’s so people can sit down

 

[transportphoto]

• Install more seats into 378’s so people can sit down

Some how I cant see that happening on the units while they are this 'New'!

 

[MCR247]

Some how I cant see that happening on the units while they are this 'New'!

I think he was more joking than being completely serious

 

[transportphoto]

I know - I was joking in reply! LoL

 

[MCR247]

I know - I was joking in reply! LoL

Oh

 

[Pumbaa]

• Replacing all 313’s with 378’s

Already done. Last 313s ran on the WLL and NLL last night;

2N30- 22.36 Richmond to Stratford arriving 23:35 (313111)- then running empty to Willesden TMD
2N35- 23:33 Stratford to Camden Road- arrving 23:53 (313113)- then running empty to Euston
2N34- 23:17 Richmond to Willesden- arriving 23:33 (313119)- then running empty to Watford

By that 313113 was last scheduled 313 to run. Now will run Watford DC lines until DOO issues sorted.

 

[Minstral25]

Yes I did have my tongue in cheek about the 378's - think they are the worst designed interiors ever in train. They end up with unnecessary standing on 90% of services, plus they are really ugly and harsh seats. Works well in a 7/8 car tube but not in a full size train.

So deffo no more 313's on the NLL/WLL going forward - shame they have put in good service despite neglect over the years. Good luck on the south coast!

 

[A60K]

Serious question: Do you ever use the NLL in the peak hours?

 

[313103]

Never knew the 313s operated on the ELL. But in all seriousness like A60 has asked have you ever travelled on the NLL in the rush hour, even with a ten minute headway your still leaving passengers behind on stations such is the amount of passengers now travelling and its even worse when the kids are at school.

The extension of the class 378s to 4 car will reilive some of that pressure and passengers will have more seats in a 4 car 378s then you got on a 3 car 313.

With regard the works:
*Boleyn Road will be getting its new bridge.
*Dalston Western Junction and Camden Road signalboxes will (have) closed.
*New platforms at Canonbury, Highbury & Islington & Caledonian Road & Barnsbury.
*Dalston Kingsland, Kentish Town West, Homerton Stations extended to take 4 car platforms. Along with the westbound platform at Gospel Oak.
*The junction at Dalston Western Junction ripped up and replaced with plain line.
*All North London services will be operated in AC mode so no need for the very slow pan operations at Dalston and Camden.
*New Signals.

What you wont get just yet is 4 coach trains, these wont come online until 2011, whilst build continues for the ELL and the new class 172.

So far that is what i can get out of the company. Whether we get all this remains to be seen and as is usual will more then likely over run.

 

[tbtc]

*All North London services will be operated in AC mode so no need for the very slow pan operations at Dalston and Camden

All the way to Stratford?

(excuse my ignorance)

 

[313103]

All the way to Stratford?

(excuse my ignorance)

Sorry what i meant to say is that it will be AC operation Acton Central/North Pole Junction to Stratford.

 

[class313]

Is it me, or are the 378's much slower at putting their pan up/down. So the less times it has to put the pan up/down, the better. At the moment the only upgrade that is needed for the NLL is to get rid of the 378 and to re-introduce the 313's

 

[313103]

Is it me, or are the 378's much slower at putting their pan up/down. So the less times it has to put the pan up/down, the better. At the moment the only upgrade that is needed for the NLL is to get rid of the 378 and to re-introduce the 313's

Your absolutely right, they are much slower at raising lowering the pan, this is down to the trains on board computer slowing everything down. Nothing worse the having to wait on average at these stations 2 minutes whilst the train decides whether it likes the dc/ac or not. It is a question a get asked a lot by ordinary passengers who have also noticed this very slow procedure.

Another thing is when the train goes through neutral sections on AC if your in the ptos coach is sounds as though there has been a massive power surge, it often scares me and i should be used to it, ive had numerous complaints from passengers who think there is something wrong with the train. Couldnt agree more on your class 313 comment, 313.

 

[Minstral25]

Serious question: Do you ever use the NLL in the peak hours?

In the peak twice daily and often in the off peak as well!!

The 378's are awful - off peak there is standing all day long. In the peak there aren't enough poles for people to hold onto and I have seen people fall over.

They are an accountant's idea of a solution - all that money spent on rebuilding the line and new trains - then save a little bit by not spending on full length trains (say 8 Coaches) and platforms. 10 years and it will all need doing again.

Hope I am proved wrong and the more regular trains (8 per hour instead of 4) will make this unnecessary but I won't be surprised.

313103 - thanks for the info

 

[class313]

It was really funning while going into Richmond, the train got tripped by the tripcock outside the station, and just before it came to a halt, the guard said: "this train is about to come to a sudden halt, IF you are standing up, please hold on to somthing", I just love that, 'if you are standing up', isn't that inevitible in a 378.

...who think there is something wrong with the train.

, yeah they are right, the trains are always going wrong, I have barely ever been a fully functional 378.. Now back on topic. It is very hard to increase the number of train per hour because there is too much freight, and the district line at one end restrains it a bit.:-x

 

[rick9525]

Was down in London last week

Caught the NLL from H and I down to West Hampstead and manaaged to get a seat on a 378 .

It was very wet but lots of work going on reagrding the new track and platform and plenty of freight seen.

The funny thing there was a general announcment re works at the weekend affecting the NNL. I would how many realised it meant no trains for 4 months

 

[A60K]

In the peak twice daily and often in the off peak as well!!

The 378's are awful - off peak there is standing all day long. In the peak there aren't enough poles for people to hold onto and I have seen people fall over.

They are an accountant's idea of a solution - all that money spent on rebuilding the line and new trains - then save a little bit by not spending on full length trains (say 8 Coaches) and platforms. 10 years and it will all need doing again.

Agree more things to hold onto would be useful - some continental railways put handrails into the middle of the floor for people to cluster around.

In my experience the peak on the NLL is better with 378s simply because they can swallow more people. There's little chance of getting a seat with either 313 or 378 stock, but there's a greater chance of physically getting on a 378.

An 8 car NLL would have been great, but I think the expense and difficulty rules it out in the current climate. Given the history of the line and the location and layout of many of the stations then 4 cars was affordable, 8 cars way outside TfL's budget at the moment.

Not to say that one day this won't happen, but it will be a massive and expensive job. Remember that if you have 8 car stations then the number of extra passengers will mean rebuilding many of the access stairs and ticket offices as well, which they haven't needed to do when just going to 4 cars.

 

[tbtc]

Out of interest, what are the main flows on the NLL (and in which direction)?

I've only used it on Saturdays /Sundays in the captial over recent years, but would be interesting to see where the busiest stretches are (most routes in London are busy going into the centre in the morning peak and out of the centre in the evening, but the orbital nature of the NLL means things aren't as obvious)

 

[devon_metro]

The thing that annoys me with the 378s is the essentially non stop announcements. Due to the number of stations it stops at its non stop and very annoying on a train with no spare seats and air-con broke in the middle of summer.

 

[jon0844]

How many trains were in service last summer to have broken air conditioning already?

Was it really broken, or simply not ice cold? It would cost a fortune in energy to chill the trains down to 20 degrees when they're packed and the doors are letting in hot air, so surely the idea is to help keep the temperature from rising to silly levels when exposed to the sun?

 

[313103]

Out of interest, what are the main flows on the NLL (and in which direction)?

I've only used it on Saturdays /Sundays in the captial over recent years, but would be interesting to see where the busiest stretches are (most routes in London are busy going into the centre in the morning peak and out of the centre in the evening, but the orbital nature of the NLL means things aren't as obvious)

The heavest peak flow AM traffic is Stratford to Highbury and Highbury to Willesden Junction 06.15 to 09.45. Wilesden Junction to Clapham Junction 07.00 to 09.30. Clapham Junction to Shepherds Bush 06.45 to 10.00.
Highbury & Islington is the North London Lines busiest station, it is like two terminal points where your train will dislodged three quarters to be replaced by more or less the same numbers.

The peak flow in the evening is dependant on the service relibilaty, you can even have trains running less then half full in the peak flow, i suppose that is because people tend to spread their journeys out on the way home from work. The busiest section is Shepherds Bush to Clapham Junction 16.45 to 19.15. The other busy section is Highbury & Islington to Stratford from 16.00 to 19.15.

 

[tbtc]

The heavest peak flow AM traffic is Stratford to Highbury and Highbury to Willesden Junction 06.15 to 09.45. Wilesden Junction to Clapham Junction 07.00 to 09.30. Clapham Junction to Shepherds Bush 06.45 to 10.00.
Highbury & Islington is the North London Lines busiest station, it is like two terminal points where your train will dislodged three quarters to be replaced by more or less the same numbers.

The peak flow in the evening is dependant on the service relibilaty, you can even have trains running less then half full in the peak flow, i suppose that is because people tend to spread their journeys out on the way home from work. The busiest section is Shepherds Bush to Clapham Junction 16.45 to 19.15. The other busy section is Highbury & Islington to Stratford from 16.00 to 19.15.

Thanks - that explains a few things

 

[CCF23]

Would anyone who knows be able to post when the last 313's will run on the Watford-Euston route, as this is the last route they are running on the London Overground network any information or times would be greatly appreciated by myself and i imagine others too. Thanks Chris

 

[A60K]

It will be a while yet, as the DC lines are still entirely run by 313s.