Confusion of Oyster Price Cap

[GodAtum]

I made a number of journeys on Saturday:

East Croydon - Victoria
Victoria - Uxbridge
Bus
Uxbridge - Victoria
Victoria - East Croydon

In total I was charged £8.25. But the daily price cap is £5? I have put my YP railcard on my Oyster.

 

[jopsuk]

Forget to touch out on one of them correctly?

 

[Mojo]

Check your journey statement, either online, at a ticket machine or ticket office to see what it's charged you for. Oyster often tries to be clever, spectacularly fails and then lands the unfortunate user with a hefty charge and/or accusations of fare dodging by gateline staff.

Every single time I go to Heron Quay or Canary Wharf I get overcharged. Without fail. As I understand it, the problem is to do with out of station interchanges (OSIs). Anyone touching out at Canary Wharf LUL, Canary Wharf DLR or Heron Quays and then touching in at a different station in that three (if you interchange within the time allowed for an OSI) would have their motives treated as an OSI and thus continuation of their journey. When you later go to touch out at your destination, the last journey is looked at, and if it started longer ago than the maximum the system thinks it should take, you end up with an unresolved journey, which normally appears on your statement as: "*start station* - Unfinished; Unstarted - *finish station*"

 

[alexjames]

My understanding is that the Oyster price cap does not always apply when using National Rail. So if you do ten one stop journeys on LU, you will be price capped at the expected amount. Do those same ten journeys on LU and add in a NR trip, you will be charged in excess of the cap because of the NR component.

So the advice is if mixing NR and LU, you may well be better off with a paper travelcard.

I assume that the underlying problem is that NR operators wish to be paid a certain minimum amount per journey. That is incompatible with an Oyster price cap in certain circumstances. Make those ten tube journeys into ten NR journeys then that NR operator is getting only 50p per journey on your figures. Unacceptable to those operators methinks.

 

[323235]

My understanding is that the Oyster price cap does not always apply when using National Rail. So if you do ten one stop journeys on LU, you will be price capped at the expected amount. Do those same ten journeys on LU and add in a NR trip, you will be charged in excess of the cap because of the NR component.

So the advice is if mixing NR and LU, you may well be better off with a paper travelcard.

I assume that the underlying problem is that NR operators wish to be paid a certain minimum amount per journey. That is incompatible with an Oyster price cap in certain circumstances. Make those ten tube journeys into ten NR journeys then that NR operator is getting only 50p per journey on your figures. Unacceptable to those operators methinks.

but if thats the case then why does it say on the price capping pages on the TFL website:-

Daily price capping is the most you will be charged a day when you use Oyster to pay as you go on bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and National Rail services within London.

 

[Helvellyn]

In total I was charged £8.25. But the daily price cap is £5? I have put my YP railcard on my Oyster.

You've told us you had a bus journey in there, and the Y-P discount doesn't apply to that on Oyster I believe. £8.25 still seems high, so as others have said check online at TfL what journeys you made according to the system, and the charges that were raised for each.

 

[323235]

You've told us you had a bus journey in there, and the Y-P discount doesn't apply to that on Oyster I believe. £8.25 still seems high, so as others have said check online at TfL what journeys you made according to the system, and the charges that were raised for each.

If you've travelling on either National Rail, the Underground or DLR then as far as I can recall reading, any bus journeys you make in the same day do count towards the discounted railcard cap.

However if you only travel on the bus/tram then you are subject to the applicable cap which you don't get a discount on.

here's a quote taken from tfl.gov.uk on the subject :-

National Railcard price capping discounts do not apply if you only travel by bus or tram. However, if you travel by bus or tram as well as Tube, DLR, London Overground and National Rail services, any bus or tram journeys will count towards the daily price cap.

 

[bb21]

However if you only travel on the bus/tram then you are subject to the applicable cap which you don't get a discount on.

Yes you do actually from the beginning of this year. The undiscounted Bus/Tram one-day rate comes in at £3.90 but a Y-P enabled Oyster is capped at £3.35 which is the discounted Zone 2-6 travelcard as any travelcard covering any zonal combination is valid on bus services across the entire London network.

It was not the case last year.

 

[323235]

Yes you do actually from the beginning of this year. The undiscounted Bus/Tram one-day rate comes in at £3.90 but a Y-P enabled Oyster is capped at £3.35 which is the discounted Zone 2-6 travelcard as any travelcard covering any zonal combination is valid on bus services across the entire London network.

It was not the case last year.

Note the use of the words "when only"
i.e. when not using Tube,Train or DLR

as to only pay £3.35 on Oyster a person would have to use one of the above rail services in e.g Zones 2-6 as you mentioned above.

Therefore we are essentially saying the same thing.

 

[barrykas]

I made a number of journeys on Saturday:

East Croydon - Victoria
Victoria - Uxbridge

Assuming you touched in at Victoria LU within 20 minutes of touching out at Victoria NR, and didn't hit the maximum journey time (3 hours for 10 zones on a Saturday) that'd count as one journey, which should be charged at £2.85.

Bus

£1.20

Uxbridge - Victoria
Victoria - East Croydon

Again, assuming you didn't exceed the interchange time at Victoria (40 minutes for LU - NR) or maximum journey time (3 hours again), that should be charged at £2.85.

In total I was charged £8.25. But the daily price cap is £5? I have put my YP railcard on my Oyster.

Looking at the journeys you've given, it appears that you've been charged £2.85 from East Croydon to Uxbridge, £1.20 for the bus, and a £4.20 Entry charge for Uxbridge to East Croydon.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[yorkie]

Basically it's a scam by TfL. The daily cap isn't really a cap. They still charge you if you fail to touch in/out properly and even if you do touch in/out the system will make all sorts of weird assumptions about out of system interchanges (OSI's) and overcharge you.

The daily cap as a true cap is a myth, and the lack of a true cap can only serve one purpose: to generate cash dishonestly and fraudulently for TfL.

I suggest you contact the helpline and complain and get your money back.

They'll be banking on some people not doing this and then they get to keep the money. Don't let them scam you!

 

[GodAtum]

I phoned the helpline and they refunded me £1.60 as the system said I did not touch out at East Croydon. I'm confused with what is said on the journey history website:

Starting balance £15.20

Victoria (platforms 9-19) [National Rail] Exit £2.50 £13.50
East Croydon [National Rail] Entry - £4.20 £11.00

I'm confused about the calculations under the fare column. I know that 15.20 - 4.20 is £11 but I'm not sure how £11 - £2.50 = £13.50?

 

[Capybara]

I have often in the past made the tube journey from Kennington to London Bridge and return with only a short stay in the London Bridge area (no more than 15-20 minutes) in between. Despite the barrier at London Bridge indicating the completion of a single journey, on return to Kennington I found that the balance on my card had plummeted. Further investigation showed that I had been charged for TWO uncompleted journeys (one in each direction). This happened on no less than eight occasions and got to the point where I was walking to Borough to commence my return journey, or using the 'bus to save the faff of ringing up to claim a refund (which they always did, by the way; no complaints there). Finally I was told that this was due to a 'bug' in the system which the programmers were working on. I don't know if this was ever fixed and haven't tried the manouevre since.

One point to remember, though, in claiming the refund; on each occasion they tried simply to refund me twice the difference between the fare for an uncompleted journey and the single fare, regardless of whatever other travel I had completed on the day and I had to point out when I was entitled to a 'cap' and this entailed a bigger refund. It always pays to be alert when going through barriers as to how much the system is charging you.

And I haven't dared yet use the card on national rail services since they extended the system.

 

[bb21]

Note the use of the words "when only"
i.e. when not using Tube,Train or DLR

as to only pay £3.35 on Oyster a person would have to use one of the above rail services in e.g Zones 2-6 as you mentioned above.

Therefore we are essentially saying the same thing.

Doesn't make a difference. You are capped £3.35 when only using bus/tram. It's new this year, ie. first bus £1.20, second bus £1.20, third bus capped 95p. Give it a try. It was different last year. All subsequent buses are free.

 

[323235]

Doesn't make a difference. You are capped £3.35 when only using bus/tram. It's new this year, ie. first bus £1.20, second bus £1.20, third bus capped 95p. Give it a try. It was different last year. All subsequent buses are free.

If that's the case then either the website hasn't been updated or there's a fault with the oyster system.

 

[Edvid]

I phoned the helpline and they refunded me £1.60 as the system said I did not touch out at East Croydon. I'm confused with what is said on the journey history website:

Starting balance £15.20

Victoria (platforms 9-19) [National Rail] Exit £2.50 £13.50
East Croydon [National Rail] Entry - £4.20 £11.00

I'm confused about the calculations under the fare column. I know that 15.20 - 4.20 is £11 but I'm not sure how £11 - £2.50 = £13.50?

The £2.50 was credited to your card (hence the lack of an adjacent '-' mark). When you enter the system (LU/DLR/LO/NR), a maximum fare is deducted (depending on where you touch in) and touching out credits your card by the difference between the maximum fare and the fare due for the journey you made.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If that's the case then either the website hasn't been updated or there's a fault with the oyster system.

Apparently the system cannot transfer your card to a lower cap, so the site needs updating.

 

[John @ home]

the system cannot transfer your card to a lower cap

Sorry, don't understand. What does this mean?

 

[bb21]

I take it to mean that if your card was already capped at the bus/tram only rate, i.e. £3.90, if you make another journey on the tube say, Acton Town-Heathrow, then you will not be refunded the difference of 55p automatically to make the lower cap at Zone 2-6 discounted rate of £3.35. It could happen with discount loaded cards or if you load your discount half way through a day and you're already capped at the higher rate.

It happened to me last time I loaded my Y-P discount on my card but i asked at Tottenham Court Road station ticket office and got an adjustment on the card as a refund. Not sure though if all LU staff would be that helpful.

 

[Edvid]

Thanks, that is what I meant.