Chiltern Evergreen 3 Announcment - Friday

[route:oxford]

Are people really that thick or are you taking the ****, since when has a mark 3 COACH been a locomotive or a multiple unit?

I said-

They are tested to maximum permitted speed plus 10%

If the words are too long for you I will put it in SIMPLE terms for you!

A MkIII coach is, of course, neither a locomotive or a multiple unit. They do often, however, form part of a train. If you refer to your earlier postings you referred to the assembly as a train rather than a loco or multiple unit.

As a Class 67 could quite readily be hauling a variety of coaching stock, even a multiple unit. It can be helpful to give clarity in a statement.

So less of the tantrums.

 

[Chafford1]

London - Birmingham upgrades to be carried out between February this year and February 2011.

 

[The Planner]

So Mr Shooter must have conceeded that the Dec 10 timetable was pushing it a bit then....

 

[Voyager 2093]

Doesnt anyone sense the idea Chiltern would have been better of ordering more 168s instead of Class 172s?

 

[The Planner]

No, they needed the 172s for the local services. Thats why the loco hauled stuff will come in to cover the heavy usage Brum trains.

 

[Chafford1]

No, they needed the 172s for the local services. Thats why the loco hauled stuff will come in to cover the heavy usage Brum trains.

Are Chiltern planning to bring back first class for the loco hauled trains?

 

[royaloak]

Loco hauled mark 3s are 110mph, dont have a clue why but XC converted some to HST spec and the suddenly they become 125mph, might be to do with the brakes, on a HST they are fed from both powercars at the same time, but on a loco hauled set they are only fed from the loco so it might be to do with the speed of the brake application.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A MkIII coach is, of course, neither a locomotive or a multiple unit. They do often, however, form part of a train. If you refer to your earlier postings you referred to the assembly as a train rather than a loco or multiple unit.

As a Class 67 could quite readily be hauling a variety of coaching stock, even a multiple unit. It can be helpful to give clarity in a statement.

So less of the tantrums.

I have edited my original post to keep you happy! :roll:
It is the speed of the traction motor that is the main limit on top speed, look at units with the same motors but different top speeds and then find out the different gearing and of course loco hauled coaches dont have TMs.
I write things for people who have a basic understanding of these things, if you dont understand them then look at liapedia for background information.

 

[Old Timer]

Loco hauled mark 3s are 110mph, dont have a clue why but XC converted some to HST spec and the suddenly they become 125mph, might be to do with the brakes, on a HST they are fed from both powercars at the same time, but on a loco hauled set they are only fed from the loco so it might be to do with the speed of the brake application..

Mk 3 are fine for 125. They do not have to be converted to HST standards to run above 110mph.

The HST conversion is dual brake piping and control wiring.

Somewhere in the back of my mind is a slight change in the distributor, so that the 125 can stop within 100 mph signalling spacing from 125 mph but I could be remembering wrongly.

 

[royaloak]

Thanks OT, thought it was to do with the brakes but couldnt remember exactly what.

 

[RPM]

No a 168 can do 110mph mate a Chiltern driver told me this while I was having a cab ride up to Aylesbury however the ATP will kick in.

390s are capable of 140mph but the max speed they currently operate at is 125mph.

Well this Chiltern driver says its hard enough to get them up to 100, let alone 110!
Maybe downhill with the wind behind you and a long run up. Would have to isolate ATP too or it would start bleating at 103mph and would activate the brake at 106mph.
Not an experiment that is worth risking 40k a year for

 

[Chafford1]

Well this Chiltern driver says its hard enough to get them up to 100, let alone 110!
Maybe downhill with the wind behind you and a long run up. Would have to isolate ATP too or it would start bleating at 103mph and would activate the brake at 106mph.
Not an experiment that is worth risking 40k a year for

Roll on those 67s and mk 3s!

 

[Voyager 2093]

There is a Chiltern Class 121 sitting in Wembley Light Maintainance Depot does anyone know why?

 

[Skip 10]

There is a Chiltern Class 121 sitting in Wembley Light Maintainance Depot does anyone know why?

Blue and Grey one? It should be there as the WSMR route learner, when its fixed.

 

[Dampflok]

Blue and Grey one? It should be there as the WSMR route learner, when its fixed.

It is now fixed (it had shifted tyres on the wheels) - the bubblecar 960014 ran as 5Z02 on Thursday 4th February 2010 for route-learning and I had the privilege and good fortune to be invited by WSMR to travel on the train. It was due to leave Wembley depot via the south entrance onto Neasden sidings at around 09:50, but was delayed due to the sidings being occupied by the sand working from Wool to Neasden. It eventually departed at around 10:56 and instead of reversing at Neasden South Junction to go around the diversionary route via South Ruislip and Greenford etc., it went via Neasden Curve to Acton Canal Wharf and reversed there to access the WCML and regain the schedule. In fact it then ran early for much of the rest of the day, but was held at Acton Yard West (signal SN197) on the down goods line for almost an hour for its booked time on the second run this way.

It was a very interesting day and afforded photo opportunities on some lines that are very difficult to get from the lineside as access is pretty difficult in places.

I've started adding shots to my site in a dedicated collection - there are still many more shots to add!

http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/c1811808.html

Unfortunately, the light/weather were none too good on the day. The train was due to run again today, and future runs are also planned, though I do not have any details. Thanks to WSMR for the facilities granted!

Cheers, Geoff

 

[Voyager 2093]

Great shots Geoff!

Has anybody thought that 180s may be good for Chiltern or Wrexham & Shropshire services or is it just me? They'd look fantastic in both liveries.

 

[seventh-heaven]

Can you imagine what would happen to the PPM figures!!!

 

[tbtc]

Well this Chiltern driver says its hard enough to get them up to 100

Interesting. Because we're told by others that the 90mph ATW 158s could never compete

 

[150219]

Has anybody thought that 180s may be good for Chiltern or Wrexham & Shropshire services or is it just me? They'd look fantastic in both liveries.

One difficulty with splitting up different fleets, is that you loose a touch of flexibility with the existing operation. Only 165, 166 and 168 units can currently couple up together and operate properly.

 

[Voyager 2093]

True but supposing Wrexham & Shropshire took on some redundant 180s they would be good for the service and they are not that bad for passenger comfort, one thing Wrexham & Shropshire do take very good care of.

I personally believe it will be good for Wrexham & Shropshire but I am starting to think twice about Chiltern regarding the coupling problems.

 

[The Planner]

But who would rescue them in a failure if Chiltern dont have units that can attach to them ??

 

[Voyager 2093]

Well yeah, I would just love to see Chiltern with some more express stock the reason why I drew up that idea.

Well when Evergreen kicks in im sure things will change regarding stock.

 

[The Planner]

No it wont, they will be getting 4x172s sometime late this year or early 2011 and the loco hauled stock in 2012, nothing else.

 

[route:oxford]

But who would rescue them in a failure if Chiltern dont have units that can attach to them ??

How do the current operators of the 180s effect a rescue (other than by attaching another 180)?

 

[kitkat]

Mk 3 are fine for 125. They do not have to be converted to HST standards to run above 110mph.

The HST conversion is dual brake piping and control wiring.

Somewhere in the back of my mind is a slight change in the distributor, so that the 125 can stop within 100 mph signalling spacing from 125 mph but I could be remembering wrongly.

the braking of an HST is slightly different to, say a 67 or an 87, in that the brake applies quicker via 2 E70 valves but releases slower via 1 E70 valve, (quote me if i am wrong) that could be why higher speeds when sandwiched between class 43 power cars, cant remember on a pois list if MKIIIs were shown as 110mph or 125mph? maybe a current virgin driver can remind me? know DVTs were.

 

[seventh-heaven]

WSMR have demonstrated that 67 + Mk3's meet the higher braking curve that HST's and disc braked Sprinters meet - this due to the fact that the Class 67 has a very good brake itself and does not rely on the coaches to brake it from high speed. THis is not the case with other locomotives hauling the Mk3's including 87 & 90.

This is the reason that WSMR are now allowed to do 100mph between Princes Risborough and Bicester, whereas previously it was a Sprinter differential. The route is now signed 100 but the sectional appendix has a comment that loco hauled trains hauled by other than Class 67 are restricted to 75. This is actually still not right as a 67 with mk2 or mk1's cannot achieve the higher brake curve so beware you charter drivers!!

 

[The Planner]

The route is now signed 100 but the sectional appendix has a comment that loco hauled trains hauled by other than Class 67 are restricted to 75. This is actually still not right as a 67 with mk2 or mk1's cannot achieve the higher brake curve so beware you charter drivers!!

Thats covered by the rule book, module TW3 i think, the schedule would be padded out to take that into account, it happens all over the place.

 

[TDK]

True but supposing Wrexham & Shropshire took on some redundant 180s they would be good for the service and they are not that bad for passenger comfort, one thing Wrexham & Shropshire do take very good care of.

I personally believe it will be good for Wrexham & Shropshire but I am starting to think twice about Chiltern regarding the coupling problems.

There isn't anything wrong with the current WSMR stock, why would they consider a 180?

 

[Skip 10]

There isn't anything wrong with the current WSMR stock, why would they consider a 180?

It would keep us entertained TDK, imagine how oftern the jinx would strike.

 

[TDK]

Chiltern has also been awarded a 7.5 year extension to the franchise WRT to the Evergreen 3 project.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/14/chiltern-franchise-extension

I think that is Government propoganda, if I remember correctly the 7.5 years on the franchise was the original agreement and it has just been confirmed that Chiltern can run the full origianlly agreed franchise duration after the promise of investment with EG3.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It would keep us entertained TDK, imagine how oftern the jinx would strike.

180's are glorified 175's, the 175's had major software problems with the TMS, as far as I know the 180 have not had the mods so the option would be a PPM nightmare running them from Wrexham to London, it's ok these people saying they would look nice in WSMR/Chiltern livery, I think a bubble car would look nice in WSMR livery but it wouldn't be a practical option, class 08's wouldlook nice too but 15mph all the way would be soul destroying however the option of using class 180 units would not be agreed.

Jinx SKIP10? What jinx, we did 6 runs last week all arriving on time or early with no hitches, I think the jinx has deserted us for now

 

[barrykas]

I think a bubble car would look nice in WSMR livery

I wanna see a bubble car in ICE livery, just for fun

Jinx SKIP10? What jinx, we did 6 runs last week all arriving on time or early with no hitches, I think the jinx has deserted us for now

Number 10 seems to be the biggest cause of failures on W&S. Failed again last Friday when it should have worked 1J84. Ended up using the stock off 1P33...again.

Cheers,

Barry