First Group: General Discussion

[Bluebirdscot66]

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As far as I know it is still a possibility that the whole of (or most of) First Bus UK might be floated as a stand-alone company (PLC ?) -- -- or have I missed something ?

Also, there is, I believe, a big shareholders meeting soon (25th ?) where presumably they will vote to remove the current BoD, or support the current BoD who will then proceed with their current plans, -- -- if anyone can correct or clarify that factually, please do !!

I’ve heard that too about 25th dunno what to expect from it though .

 

[lastbus]

As far as I know it is still a possibility that the whole of (or most of) First Bus UK might be floated as a stand-alone company (PLC ?) -- -- or have I missed something ?

Also, there is, I believe, a big shareholders meeting soon (25th ?) where presumably they will vote to remove the current BoD, or support the current BoD who will then proceed with their current plans, -- -- if anyone can correct or clarify that factually, please do !!

Yes there is still the possibility that UK Bus will be launched as a separate company.

There is a meeting on the 25th at the request of coast capital who want to remove current first directors and replace them with directors of their own.

 

[Robertj21a]

Some comments around concerning who might have acquired the Bolton operations. Sounds like something may be imminent, possibly before the 25th June meeting ?

 

[overthewater]

Some comments around concerning who might have acquired the Bolton operations. Sounds like something may be imminent, possibly before the 25th June meeting ?

It's been said we might have to wait until after that meeting before Rotala gets announced. And if it's not them, then where are Rotala expanding instead?

 

[Kahuna47]

It's been said we might have to wait until after that meeting before Rotala gets announced. And if it's not them, then where are Rotala expanding instead?

The general consensus round here is that it's Go Ahead that have got Bolton, and Rotala have bought Arriva's depot on the other side of town. According to union sources, 'someone' has bought Bolton, I think they're just waiting for the legal side of things to be sorted before making an announcement.

Fingers crossed its anyone but Rotala!

K

 

[overthewater]

A few points; I hope Go ahead does have Bolton, as that would mean it would included Vantage? However If Rotala has brought the Arriva Depot in Manchester, that would only take it up to 4 depot so where is the missing depot, ( as postage the new roles of for 5 depots) and more importantly, Arriva has salami sliced part of the company away which was poo poo by many during this Arriva sell off by DB. That would just leave Oldham well who knows about that.

 

[Bwsbro]

A few points; I hope Go ahead does have Bolton, as that would mean it would included Vantage? However If Rotala has brought the Arriva Depot in Manchester, that would only take it up to 4 depot so where is the missing depot, ( as postage the new roles of for 5 depots) and more importantly, Arriva has salami sliced part of the company away which was poo poo by many during this Arriva sell off by DB. That would just leave Oldham well who knows about that.

Vantage is not part of the sale, thats why the proposed sell failed previously. It sould have to go back out to tender via TFGM.

 

[Kahuna47]

Vantage is not part of the sale, thats why the proposed sell failed previously. It sould have to go back out to tender via TFGM.

I never understood why Vantage couldn't be part of the sale - GNW got the Free Bus contract as part and parcel, and that contract is newer than the Vantage one.

Anyway, rumour with Vantage is that they're considering moving that to the old Rusholme depot..

 

[Bwsbro]

A few points; I hope Go ahead does have Bolton, as that would mean it would included Vantage? However If Rotala has brought the Arriva Depot in Manchester, that would only take it up to 4 depot so where is the missing depot, ( as postage the new roles of for 5 depots) and more importantly, Arriva has salami sliced part of the company away which was poo poo by many during this Arriva sell off by DB. That would just leave Oldham well who knows about that.

Dont forget the Yourbus depot in Heanor is now on the Diamond North West licence (125 vehicles)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I never understood why Vantage couldn't be part of the sale - GNW got the Free Bus contract as part and parcel, and that contract is newer than the Vantage one.

Anyway, rumour with Vantage is that they're considering moving that to the old Rusholme depot..

I would imagine that the Vantage contract has a specific clause regarding novation of the contract, given the various partnership aspects of it.

Free Bus contract will be a simple "master and servant" contract, I suspect, in provision of services.

 

[Robertj21a]

Vantage is not part of the sale, thats why the proposed sell failed previously. It sould have to go back out to tender via TFGM.

Agreed. My understanding is that it is hived off and run from elsewhere.

 

[overthewater]

Does that mean Vantage has gone back out to tender and we could see a new company taking over?

 

[Kahuna47]

I would imagine that the Vantage contract has a specific clause regarding novation of the contract, given the various partnership aspects of it.

Free Bus contract will be a simple "master and servant" contract, I suspect, in provision of services.

I thought it would something along the lines of that - its more rhetorical musings I've had

Does that mean Vantage has gone back out to tender and we could see a new company taking over?

I'd imagine that First would see the contract out then not submit an offer on the next tender. They make a decent amount of cash on it but not enough to keep First interested. That'll be where the rumours of reopening Rusholme have came from.

 

[overthewater]

How long does First have on the contract?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How long does First have on the contract?

Understand it was a 10 year contract

 

[Volvodart]

How long does First have on the contract?

10 years in total ending 2026.

 

[overthewater]

Are first really going to keep running this service for another 7 years?

 

[tbtc]

Probably just me thinking this (and going against the general consensus in this thread) but I for one will be sad to see the end of First Bus... when the time comes.

Yes they’ve made some bad choices and decisions in the past. Their reputation has “been through the mill” in the certain places to say the least; but it will be the end of an era.

If they could of just kept their focus on UK bus in the first place instead of losing their way in the early 2000’s - and dropping the local fleetnames things may not have gone so wrong.

I remember the launch of the original barbie Dart SLF’s/Scanias etc and at the time they were a real head turner offering a more quality service, classy livery and sophisticated interior (although not to everyone’s tastes!) you knew they quality buses when you see one coming towards you.

Just a shame they couldn’t keep moving with the times, modern trends and purchasing new stock in the high numbers they were back in the late 1990’s.

Overground too was quite a new thing back in the day!

Agreed - I think that a lot of modern enthusiasts don't realise just how good First were twenty years ago, which is why their fall from grace is so frustrating - they seemed years ahead of the competition - flooding the streets with low floor vehicles back when Stagecoach were wedded to the B10M and Lothian Buses were still running Atlanteans.

The corporate colours were deliberately different, provocative, but it highlighted a step(free!) change in bus operation.

Hindsight is wonderful but before they got too involved playing trains or getting transatlantic, they seemed a great company.

The low floor revolution in Glasgow started initially with a mixed bunch of buses in that awful red livery in mid 1997

I have fond memories of the red livery, not too dissimilar to Central Scottish.

Partly because you've got to be careful with colours in Glasgow (not too much green, blue or orange for cultural/football reasons!), also because people generally have fond associations of plain red buses in London yet very few "provincial" companies have used a plain red livery (there are lots of "provicnial" people who use buses in London that wouldn't dream of doing so in the towns/cities they live in)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Are first really going to keep running this service for another 7 years?

Without knowing what is in the contract, it's difficult to say what they can do?

 

[Kahuna47]

Without knowing what is in the contract, it's difficult to say what they can do?

I can imagine they'll be a stiff financial penalty if they decide to bugger off early...

 

[winston270twm]

A few points; I hope Go ahead does have Bolton, as that would mean it would included Vantage? However If Rotala has brought the Arriva Depot in Manchester, that would only take it up to 4 depot so where is the missing depot, ( as postage the new roles of for 5 depots) and more importantly, Arriva has salami sliced part of the company away which was poo poo by many during this Arriva sell off by DB. That would just leave Oldham well who knows about that.

Look on the Diamond Bus North West License amendments, then you can answer your own question:
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/view-details/licence/164713

 

[overthewater]

I'm surprised Derbyshire is North west, what the deal with Blackpool?

 

[Volvodart]

what the deal with Blackpool?

See below:-

https://www.intelligenttransport.co...termined-to-succeed-as-quality-bus-operators/

During 2014, Preston Bus set-up an outstation in Blackpool and successfully gained several school contracts in the Fylde and Wyre coast area, enhanced by the award of a contract on behalf of Blackpool & Fylde College.

 

[winston270twm]

I'm surprised Derbyshire is North west, what the deal with Blackpool?

Rotala are not buying Arriva Manchester either, two years ago maybe....

 

[overthewater]

THEN I suggest you QUOTE the original person post and NOT ME... especially when I have not mentioned Arriva, At least Volvodart was more helpful.

 

[Kahuna47]

Rotala are not buying Arriva Manchester either, two years ago maybe....

There were rumours a few years ago, but now they have returned with a vengeance!

This could all be hearsay of course - the only people who know are the top brass in the relevant companies.

K

 

[winston270twm]

THEN I suggest you QUOTE the original person post and NOT ME... especially when I have not mentioned Arriva, At least Volvodart was more helpful.

overthewater said: ↑
A few points; I hope Go ahead does have Bolton, as that would mean it would included Vantage? However If Rotala has brought the Arriva Depot in Manchester, that would only take it up to 4 depot so where is the missing depot, ( as postage the new roles of for 5 depots) and more importantly, Arriva has salami sliced part of the company away which was poo poo by many during this Arriva sell off by DB. That would just leave Oldham well who knows about that

I could have sworn that was you that posted the above comment.....

Google's very helpful !

 

[winston270twm]

There were rumours a few years ago, but now they have returned with a vengeance!

This could all be hearsay of course - the only people who know are the top brass in the relevant companies.

K

Yes around July 2017 - extract from Rotala's RNS dated 28th July 2017. Opp A below - was Arriva Manchester, but the deal never concluded. DB are selling Arriva as a whole group, that doesn't mean to say any new owners might not sell off bits in the future.

Opportunity A

· A further strategic acquisition in Manchester that could increase Rotala's bus capacity to 200 vehicles, representing approximately 10 per cent. of the local market

· Cost of acquisition expected to be approximately £4.6 million, (financed through equity and debt)

· Estimated revenue and EBITDA contributions of £11.0 million and £0.9 million in the first full year following completion of such acquisition

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm surprised Derbyshire is North west, what the deal with Blackpool?

Derbyshire is in the North West Traffic Area and has been, afaik, for many years.

 

[Kahuna47]

Yes around July 2017 - extract from Rotala's RNS dated 28th July 2017. Opp A below - was Arriva Manchester, but the deal never concluded. DB are selling Arriva as a whole group, that doesn't mean to say any new owners might not sell off bits in the future.

I understand that, but because the deal went south then doesn't mean Diamond aren't taking another stab at it now. They do have a lot more cash lying around now after all...