Caledonian Sleeper

[_toommm_]

Is there a loco with them? There will of course be a plan to get them moved but it’ll depend on having a driver or drivers with appropriate route/traction knowledge and sufficient hours of work available, and requesting and obtaining a schedule from Network Rail...

There wasn't a proper loco, but there was a mini one that isn't TOPS registered AFAIK.

They've been out and through the lathe twice.

 

[_toommm_]

GBRF-liveried 92043 ready to pull the set away.

 

[Clayton]

Top hotels have dozens of staff and decades of practice and don’t move ... I bet they’re trying to do the ‘hotel on wheels ‘ with a skeleton crew and not much stored up expertise. Recipe for disaster

 

[Mathew S]

GBRF-liveried 92043 ready to pull the set away.

Seems to have come up from Crewe at lunchtime (I had a look on RTT when I went past and saw it there this afternoon). What I couldn't see was a path for it to take the repaired coaches away from Longsight.

 

[_toommm_]

Seems to have come up from Crewe at lunchtime (I had a look on RTT when I went past and saw it there this afternoon). What I couldn't see was a path for it to take the repaired coaches away from Longsight.

I'm guessing the return will be another VSTP, so it can be anyone's guess really. I go past there pretty much everyday so I can see any movements or loco attachments and report anything interesting.

For anyone interested in the light loco path:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O14637/2019/06/17/advanced

 

[37254]

For anyone interested:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O14637/2019/06/17/advanced

And of course.. it's running late. Only joking. Something that's early for once!

 

[option]

Anytime Single from Edinburgh to London is £161.50. I haven't seen a CS bed for less than that recently, this being the case a refund probably actually is best. If you get an Advance or can go off-peak (£20 cheaper) you're really quids in.

It's the seated passengers who will be really stuck, as that's far cheaper than any day train fare - I guess that'd be Megabus or bust - or take CS's coach.

though card refunds take days, could easily be 5-10 days.

They should be getting everyone, that doesn't want to cancel, to their destination & be refunding them.

 

[MrEd]

Top hotels have dozens of staff and decades of practice and don’t move ... I bet they’re trying to do the ‘hotel on wheels ‘ with a skeleton crew and not much stored up expertise. Recipe for disaster

I don’t think the crews (in terms of on-train crews) on the Mk5 sets are ‘skeleton’, as (as far as I know) they have the same complement of staff as an 8-coach Mk2/Mk3 set (which has probably remained consistent since BR days), with three hosts (1 for every two sleepers), a team leader in the lounge and a safety critical train manager. The question, however, which you rightly address is whether this is enough staff to deal with the complexities of Mk5 operation (and particularly with Mk5 catering, especially with the room service option). My suspicion is that it is not, and that perhaps one or two more hosts in the lounge might not be a bad idea. (On the Highlander these extra staff could perhaps just work between London and Preston and Inverness/Fort William and Edinburgh, to cope with peak demand in the lounge). I also think that much more thorough staff training should have been carried out on the Mk5s.

On another point, I’m beginning to think that the introduction date of 7th July on the Highlander is looking very ambitious in the light of the current situation. It would be better (in my view) to delay the introduction until August/September to allow more time for crew familiarisation and the resolution of the numerous faults with the Mk5s.

 

[Struner]

I don't know if they would be able to find suitable accommodation in London or Edinburgh at such short notice.

Or Ft William or Inverness for that matter.

 

[TimboM]

A Tripadvisor review posted yesterday (“Awful train service. AVOID”) includes an account of the emergency brake application which caused the wheel flats, and the aftermath.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attra...iam_Lochaber_Scottish_Highlands_Scotland.html

Seems to have a particular gripe about Serco - how many times did he mention them in the review??

 

[TimboM]

Just passed Longsight again. The Sleeper cars are in exactly the same position as last night.

If the work has been completed I do wonder why they can’t get them down to London or Edinburgh (can’t remember which one they’ve cancelled) to run a service tonight.

They will be moved when they are ready.
92043 is the loco now in attendance.

I'm guessing the return will be another VSTP, so it can be anyone's guess really. I go past there pretty much everyday so I can see any movements or loco attachments and report anything interesting.

For anyone interested in the light loco path:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O14637/2019/06/17/advanced

​

That wasn't a light engine move - 92043 was hauling Club Car 15105 and sleeper 15332. They are two coaches which escaped unscathed but need to be reunited with the ones at Longsight to reform up the half-set.

 

[trebor79]

One would have thought the rail industry would learn, and realise the introduction of new stock never goes smoothly

"The only thing that man has ever learnt from history, is that man never learns from history".

 

[_toommm_]

They will be moved when they are ready.
92043 is the loco now in attendance.

​

That wasn't a light engine move - 92043 was hauling Club Car 15105 and sleeper 15332. They are two coaches which escaped unscathed but need to be reunited with the ones at Longsight to reform up the half-set.

Ahh yes of course, it's a '5' headcode - my bad!

 

[Mainliner]

"The only thing that man has ever learnt from history, is that man never learns from history".

History repeats itself - it has to, no-one ever listens

 

[Butts]

Perhaps next time there is a problem Serco should rustle up some of their Prisoner Escort Vehicles to convey people in.

By the sound of anecdotal evidence it would not be much of a drop in comfort levels !!

 

[USRailFan]

Perhaps next time there is a problem Serco should rustle up some of their Prisoner Escort Vehicles to convey people in.

By the sound of anecdotal evidence it would not be much of a drop in comfort levels !!

How many usable Mk5s are there? Enough for a trade with GWR for their refurb Mk3s, with the rest going for spares?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many usable Mk5s are there? Enough for a trade with GWR for their refurb Mk3s, with the rest going for spares?

What would GWR want them for?

 

[marks87]

How many usable Mk5s are there? Enough for a trade with GWR for their refurb Mk3s, with the rest going for spares?

Why are you obsessed with CS ditching the Mk5s?

The other day on the other thread you were wanting them scrapped; now they're off to GWR for some bizarre reason.

They're here to say. They need work, sure, but they're still definitely here to stay.

 

[option]

I understand what you are saying, however they should have been tested in a live environment after they were passed as safe for passenger use.

The idea of a stepchange in quality/standards/operations such as this not being stress tested to the max is ludicrous

Even having them parked up somewhere & on shore power, then 'running' a fully occupied, overnight service would have tested most of the systems & services.

Better than that would have been to build a static carriage interior, & then test all the cabin systems. It's the way it's done for a lot of construction.

 

[Steve Harris]

Better than that would have been to build a static carriage interior, & then test all the cabin systems. It's the way it's done for a lot of construction.

Unfortunately a static test won't tell you if the lip on a shower tray is big enough to contain the wave action of water within it on a moving train.

So although some systems can be tested statically, some systems (like doors coming open and shower trays holding water) will deffently need testing in a live environment.

 

[bastien]

Even having them parked up somewhere & on shore power, then 'running' a fully occupied, overnight service would have tested most of the systems & services.

Better than that would have been to build a static carriage interior, & then test all the cabin systems. It's the way it's done for a lot of construction.

Are we saying they didn't do any soft launch testing? I'm sure there are plenty of folks here who would've loved the chance to spend the night on a train parked up at Crewe or wherever!

 

[Highlandspring]

I don’t think anyone who is speculating here has a clue what ‘passenger comfort’ type testing was done by Serco and CAF during the development and commissioning process. Including me.

 

[option]

Unfortunately a static test won't tell you if the lip on a shower tray is big enough to contain the wave action of water within it on a moving train.

So although some systems can be tested statically, some systems (like doors coming open and shower trays holding water) will deffently need testing in a live environment.

One of the reports was that the shower water was puddling, which means that it's not draining away quick enough.
If you look at the drain used, & it's position, it's obvious that any tilt, in any direction, will move water away from the drain.

SCT-EEm-Caledonian-Sleeper-GER30062016031

• option
• 18 Jun 2019

Look at a bathroom (an accessible one) on the QM2, & the drain is much bigger, & the water to the right of it can't go anywhere but down the drain. There is also a much larger 'drainage hole' area.

Queen-mary-2-qm2-cunard-146825

• option
• 18 Jun 2019

 

[trebor79]

There's a fairly substantial lip at the bottom of the door frame which contains any pooling of water. It did puddle a but but disappeared pretty quickly when I used the shower.
I see lots of concerns about water leaking into the sleeping area, but nobody has actually said they've first hand experience of that happening.

 

[BRX]

One of the reports was that the shower water was puddling, which means that it's not draining away quick enough.
If you look at the drain used, & it's position, it's obvious that any tilt, in any direction, will move water away from the drain.

SCT-EEm-Caledonian-Sleeper-GER30062016031

• option
• 18 Jun 2019

Look at a bathroom (an accessible one) on the QM2, & the drain is much bigger, & the water to the right of it can't go anywhere but down the drain. There is also a much larger 'drainage hole' area.

Queen-mary-2-qm2-cunard-146825

• option
• 18 Jun 2019

Agree with you there. There are various things that don't look like great design. Like, why are the shower floor and the coved edge two separate pieces of material, instead of one, introducing a joint that can fail? And why is only one edge coved? I'm surprised that the bottom of the shower isn't a one-piece unit like a fibreglass tray or similar.

 

[BRX]

I don’t think anyone who is speculating here has a clue what ‘passenger comfort’ type testing was done by Serco and CAF during the development and commissioning process. Including me.

I think we do - not enough!

 

[option]

Agree with you there. There are various things that don't look like great design. Like, why are the shower floor and the coved edge two separate pieces of material, instead of one, introducing a joint that can fail? And why is only one edge coved? I'm surprised that the bottom of the shower isn't a one-piece unit like a fibreglass tray or similar.

That wooden panel on the left doesn't look like good design, nice gap under it to get splashed & stay damp.

Should have got one of the modular/pod bathroom suppliers to design it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree with you there. There are various things that don't look like great design. Like, why are the shower floor and the coved edge two separate pieces of material, instead of one, introducing a joint that can fail? And why is only one edge coved? I'm surprised that the bottom of the shower isn't a one-piece unit like a fibreglass tray or similar.

That was my first thought - why isn't it a deep tray to ensure the water is retained.

And the build quality looks "Cheap As F...."

 

[gordonjahn]

That was my first thought - why isn't it a deep tray to ensure the water is retained.

And the build quality looks "Cheap As F...."

My guess would be that it double as the bathroom - sitting in a shower tray when you go to the toilet of an evening might not be the right vibe either!

 

[WesternLancer]

One of the reports was that the shower water was puddling, which means that it's not draining away quick enough.
If you look at the drain used, & it's position, it's obvious that any tilt, in any direction, will move water away from the drain.

SCT-EEm-Caledonian-Sleeper-GER30062016031

• option
• 18 Jun 2019

Look at a bathroom (an accessible one) on the QM2, & the drain is much bigger, & the water to the right of it can't go anywhere but down the drain. There is also a much larger 'drainage hole' area.

Queen-mary-2-qm2-cunard-146825

• option
• 18 Jun 2019

The comparison would presumably be more with say the VIA rail ex eurostar night stock (UK loading gauge) - shower compartments, or the ex DB (now OBB?) night stock maybe?
for VIA I recall the ensuite toilet and shower being good, but you had to think ahead as after you used the shower the toilet seat was covered in water! Pic here
https://www.seat61.com/montreal-to-halifax-by-train.htm
or
https://www.seat61.com/images/nightjet-toilet-comfortline-large.jpg

A journey a couple of years back on an SNCF night train where my couchette car had been replaced by a new russian railways sleeper resulted in shower compartment at the end of the carriage, was better in a way, but of course not easy to manage use if lots of people need to shower at approx the same time, which is what would happen in UK as journey is not extended much timewise beyond boarding and arrival time