Bristol rail passengers complain... they CANNOT pay their fares

[Mojo]

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...pay-fares/article-1780326-detail/article.html

Passengers on the Severn Beach railway line into Bristol are fed up – because they cannot pay their fares.

You can't please 'em all!

It's a very serious problem. Even off-peak, the guards just can't do everyone in between dealing with the doors. All stations bar Temple Meads are unstaffed and have no TVMs.

I've been at very fiery meetings with a certain someone getting angry with FGW managers for continual non-collection of fares.

 

[Helvellyn]

You almost get the impression that FGW wishes the Severn Beach branch did not exist. It's actually a good link because Bristol can be a nightmare to drive around. If the Portishead branch was reinstated it'd be another good link.

Then again, look who the bus operator in Bristol is! If you're not collecting fares on the line can you get an accurate idea of passenger use?

 

[Mojo]

Well the official figures presented at our bi-annually meetings are based on ticket sales data which shows a significant increase since Bristol City started subsidising the line. There is also a winter & a summer passenger count which gives a good idea.

Fare increases of up to 215% [sic] were sold to certain people (including myself) on the grounds that splitting the line into two zones and only having twelve different fares for the line (inner zone, outer zone, line zone; single, return; adult, child/railcard) would make things quicker, but tickets are still issued from individual stations.

 

[Failed Unit]

You almost get the impression that FGW wishes the Severn Beach branch did not exist. It's actually a good link because Bristol can be a nightmare to drive around. If the Portishead branch was reinstated it'd be another good link.

Then again, look who the bus operator in Bristol is! If you're not collecting fares on the line can you get an accurate idea of passenger use?

I think that may be the point, I know CT used to do that to avoid admiting that 153 trains were no up to the job on many services in Lincolnshire

 

[devon_metro]

You almost get the impression that FGW wishes the Severn Beach branch did not exist. It's actually a good link because Bristol can be a nightmare to drive around. If the Portishead branch was reinstated it'd be another good link.

Then again, look who the bus operator in Bristol is! If you're not collecting fares on the line can you get an accurate idea of passenger use?

There often isn't time to collect the fares, that's the point. Some of the morning trains have an ATE on board, however as there are barriers at Bristol Temple Meads revenue protection isn't a collosal issue for FGW.

 

[Failed Unit]

There often isn't time to collect the fares, that's the point. Some of the morning trains have an ATE on board, however as there are barriers at Bristol Temple Meads revenue protection isn't a collosal issue for FGW.

But why don't they put ticket vending machines on the stations, like most places in the South East do?

 

[Mojo]

Simple TVMs that can issue non-barrier compatible tickets for journeys on the line only are going in at some of the stations, possibly.

 

[87015]

There often isn't time to collect the fares, that's the point. Some of the morning trains have an ATE on board, however as there are barriers at Bristol Temple Meads revenue protection isn't a collosal issue for FGW.

Well then you either have enough berts on the train to issue tickets or have said berts on the stations with their ticket machines.

Making people wait on arrival at there destination isn't really be good enough, other TOCs have been reprehended for this so GW shouldn't be any different.

 

[Mojo]

Plus now, lots more people are not travelling to/from Temple Meads so the fares are being missed completely.

It was suggested that the ATEs that work the line only travel between Redland & Temple Meads, the busiest section and also allowing for a direct train back (bar one service in the morning), however apparently the ATEs can only change over at staffed stations or so I've been told.

 

[323235]

tbh if I was living on the Severn Beach Branch, id want to pay my fare.
£1.50 for 26 Miles Bash there and back
Even if i had to pay £3 before 10am, id still be pretty happy as it's exceptional value,there plenty of trains and it's a 143, which ain't got no bus seats.

Even better I could get a 7 Day Season Ticket for £9. Thats over 3 times cheaper than a season ticket from my home station into Manchester and that's 4 Miles less there and back.

Id be one very happy passenger.

 

[Helvellyn]

There often isn't time to collect the fares, that's the point. Some of the morning trains have an ATE on board, however as there are barriers at Bristol Temple Meads revenue protection isn't a collosal issue for FGW.

My point was that FGW don't seem interested in doing anything about it, i.e. installing TVMs on the route. The cynic in me says that might encourage more people to use the line, especially as they could then buy tickets to destinations beyond Temple Meads.

SWT has many lightly used stations that receive an hourly service and these have TVMs. In fact I think something like only 5/6 stations on the whole network don't have them, and these have PERTIS machines.

 

[devon_metro]

FGW has had lots of issues with vandalism of TVMs in and around Bristol at Keynsham, Yate and Filton Abbey Wood to name but a few. I somewhat doubt they are inclined to install expensive kit like this on a line that is completely un-manned and prone to vandalism.

 

[jopsuk]

There's stations on the West Anglia route that off-peak get 1tph each way that are manned in the morning and have more than one TVM!

 

[Mojo]

There's stations in Birmingham quieter than Sea Mills that are staffed from first train in the morning to last train in the evening, 7 days a week!

 

[Failed Unit]

FGW has had lots of issues with vandalism of TVMs in and around Bristol at Keynsham, Yate and Filton Abbey Wood to name but a few. I somewhat doubt they are inclined to install expensive kit like this on a line that is completely un-manned and prone to vandalism.

Tyne and Wear metro manage to keep thier vending machines working and some of those stations are in very dodgy areas as well. You can get some very hardened machines you know. That is not an excuse!

 

[142094]

Tyne and Wear metro manage to keep thier vending machines working and some of those stations are in very dodgy areas as well. You can get some very hardened machines you know. That is not an excuse!

Sure do, although I doubt if there is much money in the machines to begin with, they don't take notes and I wouldn't be wanting to carry around £100 or so in loose change! However I have seen the same phone box broken into hundreds of times, so someone must think it is worth the effort.

Some solutions I can see for the Bristol problem:

1) Install TVMs
2) Install smart ticketing like Oyster
3) Get people to buy books of tickets in advance (like Paris Metro Carnets)
4) Staff the station in the morning peak.

However they all cost money so unlikely to be done.

 

[Bill Badger]

For the past couple of weeks the ATMs at Farnborough North and North Camp on the North Downs Line have a laminated sign on them saying 'credit and debit cards only' Speaking to the guard he says a number of the machines have been stolen recently, hence the action.

Penalty fares signs are still displayed though, but presumably not enforcable.

 

[transportphoto]

For the past couple of weeks the ATMs at Farnborough North and North Camp...

By saying ATM's (which are Cash Machines) I assume that you intended to say TVM (Ticket Vending Machines).

Thanks

 

[A60K]

Automatic Ticket Machines.

 

[royaloak]

ATM- Automatic Telling Machine
TVM- Ticket Vending Machine

 

[Dolive22]

Montpelier is due CCTV (and PA and help points) by March this year, and that could well be 100 peak time customers who can buy at the station, as it would presumably still be unmanned, so the CCTV would be remotely monitored. One CCTV camera covering the machine, some steel and concrete and the police would arrive before they got the machine away. Just the camera should be enough to put off anyone serious, and a PA announcement should put any drunk/bored idiots off.

Looking on Wikipedia, it looks like similar is due by March on most of the stations, along with general spiffing up (seal off / garden / renew/ new signage etc.) They could put ticket machines on all of them. Come to think of it, if they ticket machine them all, no one should be hanging around the station without a ticket, which should make keeping anyone up to no good out much easier.

 

[Ivo]

One problem is that there are some tightly-knit stations on that line. The stations either side of Redland (Clifton Down and Montpelier) are less than half a mile from Redland, whih doesn't provide much time to speak to everyone. There is a similar problem on the Coryton route in Cardiff. As for installing TVMs, couldn't they install one (or more?) on Platform 1 at Temple Meads and divert all Severn Beach Line trains there?

Also, if you want a cheap bash, get a weekly ticket for the line. £9.00 for unlimited travel from end-to-end for seven days! If you can put up with nothing but a broken-down (I wish! ) Pacer for all that time, it's money well spent (and a cheap boost for the Mileage Competition!).

 

[323235]

couldn't they install one (or more?) on Platform 1 at Temple Meads and divert all Severn Beach Line trains there?

Yeh but any TVM's on the platforms at TM would only be able to sell tickets for journey's beggining there and there's ticket barriers to prevent people entering the platform areas without a ticket meaning no one entering the station is going to use them.

so what would be the point in investing money on pointless machines which are likely to serve few people, when the Gateline Assistants can sell people tickets from any station that they've arrived from and when there's presumbly ticket machines before you get to the barriers from the ticket office side,though I can't remember where as it's been 6 months since I visited Bristol.

 

[Mojo]

Also, a lot of trains use platform 5 as well. The main problem is for people not travelling to/from Temple Meads.

CCTV was actually due by the end of last year, however Bristol City had some problems so it's been delayed. Most of the work at the stations has already been done by now. Artwork for Severn Beach has been done, just not yet been put up, Redland artwork done back in Nov and artwork at Sea Mills and Montpelier done ages ago! Also new planters on the platforms made from railway sleepers have been installed.

I've attached the Severnside CRP's annual report if anyone is interested.

 

[Ivo]

Also, a lot of trains use platform 5 as well. The main problem is for people not travelling to/from Temple Meads.

Well, as long as they don't start using Platform 3... (Note to FGW: That means NO littering the primary platform with Pacers! EVER!!! ) I really don't see the point in not using Platform 1, to be honest. It is easy to get to (no lift or stairs required), is at the right end of the station and it is out of the way of the larger and more important platforms, not to mention it being to smaller for 125mph units. I suppose they could always use Platform 2... Oh wait. They would have to actually build one.

CCTV was actually due by the end of last year, however Bristol City had some problems so it's been delayed. Most of the work at the stations has already been done by now. Artwork for Severn Beach has been done, just not yet been put up, Redland artwork done back in Nov and artwork at Sea Mills and Montpelier done ages ago! Also new planters on the platforms made from railway sleepers have been installed.

This is all very well, but it makes no difference if you only ever use the line when it's dark... I also don't see the point at Severn Beach, given how few trains actually continue beyond Avonmouth. And when/if Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill are/were done up, how long would said art last before being vandalised...?

Note for Dolive21, below: It's ne'er-do-wells. Good try though.

 

[Dolive22]

In theory wouldn't they use the PA and CCTV to scare off anyone hanging about or who started to paint anything? It shouldn't take much intervention to persaude the local ner'dowells (is that how you write it?) that the station is off limits. The police should (in theory) come out to deal with anyone not leaving, as loitering after being asked to leave by an authorised person and trespass on the railway are both crimes.

In practice it probably won't be very actively monitored, and they won't have instructions be proactive, order people off who are hanging around when no trains are running and call the police if they don't.

Also in theory a small part of the UK's trillion dollar GDP to would be used paint over any graffiti and reassert the control of public spaces by the nation as a whole through government. In practice.....

 

[Mojo]

I really don't see the point in not using Platform 1, to be honest.

It's because the xx34 departures only have a few minutes to turnaround, and it's quicker into platform 5 as there are no buffers, and it also avoids conflicting with the xx30 CrossCountry departure.

I suppose they could always use Platform 2... Oh wait. They would have to actually build one.

Platform 2 would be the bay platform next to platform 4 and the only way to get into it is from the South A new platform at the North end would be an odd number

 

[devon_metro]

Platform 2 requires a dodgy shunt to access it.

 

[Dolive22]

Much as the idea may be foreign to a TOC, perhaps instead of buying a dozen ticket machines, and another dozen next week when all this weeks have been smashed up, or not bothering to collect fares, or buying new ticket machines and reprogramming them to sell tickets from other stations, they could hire a man* with an Avantix Mobile machine for peak hours.

*or woman.

What are the directors of First Group (whose share prices was, incidentally, down ~20% YTD on Friday) thinking? It sound like they may be losing a couple of hundred thousand quid a year.

 

[Ivo]

With regards to Platform 2, I was thinking of 14. I knew that it or 2 didn't exist! Sorry! I do agree about such a platform having an odd number, though; I once told my sister - who has a knack of getting lost - to never use Temple Meads!

Anyway, how about this for a really expensive (and failure-prone!) solution?
Order some new units, maybe some 172s (as if there aren't enough on the production line as it is! ), which come with interactive display boards on the back of each seat. These display boards come complete with ticket printing facilities, and the passenger simply selects the journey that they have made and prints a ticket for it, which would include price. FGW then open a new entrance/exit from the main "hall" which links only to Platform 1 (so all Severn Beach line trains run there), which is manned by conductors, to whom the passenger surrenders - and pays for! - his/her ticket.