Buying additional tickets to travel at peak times

[fatbarry2000]

Hi all,

I have an Off-Peak Return ticket from Taunton (TAU) to Liverpool, (marked 'Liverpool Stns' but usually LIV) marked 'any permitted' route and 'as advertised' validity.
My plans have changed slightly, and instead of travelling tomorrow (Sun 14/02/2010), I'd like to travel on Monday (15/02).

If travelling on Monday, I'd probably need to start at Bristol Parkway (BPW), and in order to get into Liverpool by 1200, I would need to leave Bristol before 'off peak' hours, which I understand is 0930.

Can I buy a single to, say, Cheltenham or Birmingham New St and use that for what would now be the 'peak' part of my journey? Is this advisable generally? And can anyone explain why I could get an off-peak single to Cheltenham Spa from Bristol as early as 0840 but not use my existing ticket on the same trains?

Many thanks for any advice!

 

[tony_mac]

There is no universal meaning of 'off-peak', it depends on the ticket, so it's not unusual to have trains where some off-peak tickets are vaild, and some aren't.

But an off-peak return for Taunton to Liverpool seems to be valid on any train (after 5am), so I don't see a problem using your original ticket.

 

[yorkie]

If travelling on Monday, I'd probably need to start at Bristol Parkway (BPW), and in order to get into Liverpool by 1200, I would need to leave Bristol before 'off peak' hours, which I understand is 0930.

You've been given wrong information. Who told you that? they need to be re-trained!

Restriction : 8X
Outward and Return journeys,  
MONDAY to FRIDAY only.        
No travel restrictions on     
other days.                   
 
By any train except those     
scheduled to depart before    
0500.                         
 
If travelling via London      
St Pancras please also check  
restriction 7E & 9J.          
 
This restriction is lifted all
day from Thursday 24 December 
2009 until Friday 01 January  
2010 inclusive.

Can I buy a single to, say, Cheltenham or Birmingham New St and use that for what would now be the 'peak' part of my journey? Is this advisable generally? And can anyone explain why I could get an off-peak single to Cheltenham Spa from Bristol as early as 0840 but not use my existing ticket on the same trains?

Many thanks for any advice!

You can use a Taunton to Liverpool Off Peak ticket from 0500.

An Off Peak ticket from Bristol to Cheltenham is valid from 0833.

Each Off Peak ticket has restrictions associated with that ticket. Restrictions are set by the ticket held. Trains are not universally designated 'peak' trains; the system does not work like that.

 

[fatbarry2000]

Thanks for the assistance. The 'off peak ticket only valid after 0930' comes from my own guess- I looked at train times from BPW - LIV on Monday, and no off peak tickets were offered for sale before 0930. Also, the general advice I eventually found on Crosscountry's website (theirs are the services I'll be using to head north) says that, as a rule, off peak tickets are not valid before 0930 on weekdays.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for the assistance. The 'off peak ticket only valid after 0930' comes from my own guess- I looked at train times from BPW - LIV on Monday, and no off peak tickets were offered for sale before 0930.

That's right, Off Peak tickets from Bristol to Liverpool are valid after 0930.

Also, the general advice I eventually found on Crosscountry's website (theirs are the services I'll be using to head north) says that, as a rule, off peak tickets are not valid before 0930 on weekdays.

I can't find that quote, can you point it out to me? They really shouldn't say that.

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Ticket_options/Fares/Off-peak.aspx

"The travel restrictions for your Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you are making and will be advised when you buy your ticket. "

 

[fatbarry2000]

I found the specific reference to the times at this link:
http://websupport.custhelp.com/cgi-...SZwX2N2PTEuNzQ3JnBfcGFnZT0y&p_li=&p_topview=1

I was sent there from the 'help' link on this page:
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Customer_Service.aspx

Just to make sure I've got the point correctly, if I join a train at Bristol, with a ticket from Taunton, I'm acting within the exceptions/validity etc of that ticket, even though the restrictions are different if I'd bought the same ticket from Bristol?

 

[mumrar]

If travelling on Monday, I'd probably need to start at Bristol Parkway (BPW), and in order to get into Liverpool by 1200, I would need to leave Bristol before 'off peak' hours, which I understand is 0930.

You've been given wrong information. Who told you that? they need to be re-trained!

I must have missed the part where the OP said a member of staff told them this. But still, at least you went straight for the staff jugular again, because they're all incompetent and are trying to rip us off etc etc

 

[royaloak]

Thanks for the assistance. The 'off peak ticket only valid after 0930' comes from my own guess- I looked at train times from BPW - LIV on Monday, and no off peak tickets were offered for sale before 0930. Also, the general advice I eventually found on Crosscountry's website (theirs are the services I'll be using to head north) says that, as a rule, off peak tickets are not valid before 0930 on weekdays.

Here you go Yorkie, who needs re-training then?

 

[fatbarry2000]

Here you go Yorkie, who needs re-training then?

It's a fair cop... but the general idea behind my, er, idea was contained in Crosscountry's own help website...
However, I don't recall any obvious information when I bought the ticket from a machine on the day of my outward journey, and this is a rather sudden change of plan, so I am relying on the Internet to provide me with information.

 

[tony_mac]

Just to make sure I've got the point correctly, if I join a train at Bristol, with a ticket from Taunton, I'm acting within the exceptions/validity etc of that ticket, even though the restrictions are different if I'd bought the same ticket from Bristol?

Yes, that's right.

idea was contained in Crosscountry's own help website...

It's not your fault, it's not obvious and that page is a very poor generalisation of off-peak restrictions.

For instance, on some operators, off-peak is valid on every train. (The point of this is so that passengers who should have bought a ticket can then be charged extra for a 'peak' ticket on the train.)

 

[fatbarry2000]

Thanks very much for the help.

 

[John @ home]

If travelling on Monday, I'd probably need to start at Bristol Parkway (BPW), and in order to get into Liverpool by 1200, I would need to leave Bristol before 'off peak' hours, which I understand is 0930.

It's not clear to me whether you need to arrive in Liverpool by 1200 Monday for your own purposes, or you think your ticket requires you to get there by 1200. It may help you if I quote the relevant words from the National Fares Manual CD

Origin : TAUNTON
To : 0435 LIVERPOOL STNS
Route : 00000 - ANY PERMITTED
SVR : OFF-PEAK RETURN CC
1 Adult @£ 85.60
Standard Class Return
Restriction : 8X
Out Validity:-
Day - DATE ON TICKET
Time - SEE BELOW
Return Validity:-
Day - ONE CALENDAR MONTH
Time - SEE BELOW
Break of Jrny: (OUT) YES
(RTN) YES (SEE NOTES BELOW)
Outward and Return journeys, MONDAY to FRIDAY only. No travel restrictions on other days.
By any train except those scheduled to depart before 0500.
If travelling via London St Pancras please also check restriction 7E & 9J.

The relevant Note is:

BREAK OF JOURNEY

Off-Peak Singles and the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket. Where a passenger wishes to stop overnight or the journey cannot be completed within one day, break of journey for an overnight stay is allowed.
Where a journey continues into the next day, travel must resume before 1200 and any relevant time restrictions apply (except where regarded as an unbroken continuation of the previous day's travel where the first connection of the day may be taken).
No further break of journey is allowed except for the purpose of changing trains.
Please note that break of journey is not permitted on some journeys, as detailed in the ticket restrictions.

Return portions of Off-Peak Return tickets are valid for travel until 0230 on the day following the last day of validity (i.e. one calendar month from the outward journey). If a passenger is still travelling at 0230, they may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey but no further break of journey is allowed and all travel must be completed by 1200.

Note the difference between using the outward portion on a second day (travel must resume before 1200) and using the return portion on the day following the last day of validity (all travel must be completed by 1200).

 

[fatbarry2000]

Thanks John. I'm using the return part of this ticket, but the requirement to be in Liverpool by 1200 is my own- just to give me enough time to get to work! The information you've posted is useful nonetheless.

 

[royaloak]

fb2000, I wasn't having a go at you, believe me when I say I find this whole ticketing restrictions absolutely mind numbing, just that Yorkie seems to have it in for any rail-staff that may make a mistake and blames them for everything even when the OP changes his story, not you incidentally, yours was a very good clear question and its good that you can use your original ticket on the Monday, wonder if that would have been possible on a bus or coach or aircraft or ship?

 

[yorkie]

Here you go Yorkie, who needs re-training then?

I must have missed the part where the OP said a member of staff told them this. But still, at least you went straight for the staff jugular again, because they're all incompetent and are trying to rip us off etc etc

Ah yes, the usual "blame the customer". if you have nothing useful to say, then don't post. Simple!

Not everyone in the rail industry is trying to "rup us off" (where do I say that they "all" do? Don't misquote me), but the FACT is that some people in the rail industry DO try to mislead customers, some people DO try to rip them off, and some people DO have an attitude problem toward customers. Anyone who denies that needs to open their eyes!

As for who needs re-training, whoever wrote this page needs re-training. It may be someone who works for the awful Thetrainline, or it may be someone from ATOC who provided it, or one of the TOCs. I don't know, the customer doesn't know, but whoever wrote it is representing the rail industry and it's quite frankly totally misleading, wrong and utter gibber.

Anyone who defends that is defending the indefensible.

 

[royaloak]

Yorkie said-
http://websupport.custhelp.com/cgi-...SZwX2N2PTEuNzQ3JnBfcGFnZT0y&p_li=&p_topview=1

Anyone who defends that is defending the indefensible.

Yep got to agree with you on that one, I mean even I know thats wrong and thats saying something

 

[yorkie]

I found the specific reference to the times at this link:
http://websupport.custhelp.com/cgi-...SZwX2N2PTEuNzQ3JnBfcGFnZT0y&p_li=&p_topview=1

I was sent there from the 'help' link on this page:
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Customer_Service.aspx

Just to make sure I've got the point correctly, if I join a train at Bristol, with a ticket from Taunton, I'm acting within the exceptions/validity etc of that ticket, even though the restrictions are different if I'd bought the same ticket from Bristol?

That's a terribly worded page, it should be ignored. The restrictions need to be checked for a specific ticket. Sweeping statements such as 'Valid after 0930' can only be made for certain flows, or for journeys wholly within certain areas (where one particular company sets common conditions), but such sweeping statements are totally misleading and wrong in the case of journeys on Cross Country which can be from anywhere between Aberdeen and Penzance, and it is quite probable that most journeys on the main Cross Country route are made on tickets that are priced by a company other than Cross Country.

If your ticket is from Taunton to Liverpool, then it is the conditions of that ticket that apply. It is cheaper to do this journey splitting at Birmingham, Cheltenham and Bristol, but then the restrictions of the individual tickets would apply. The ticket(s) you hold have a set of conditions and it is those conditions that apply. Obviously for some journeys it may be better to split the ticket, or buy beyond your destination in order to get a ticket(s) with conditions that are better for you than the 'regular' A to B through ticket.

fb2000, I wasn't having a go at you, believe me when I say I find this whole ticketing restrictions absolutely mind numbing, just that Yorkie seems to have it in for any rail-staff that may make a mistake and blames them for everything even when the OP changes his story, not you incidentally, yours was a very good clear question and its good that you can use your original ticket on the Monday, wonder if that would have been possible on a bus or coach or aircraft or ship?

The OP has been mislead by whoever is responsible for that awful page he quoted. Whoever that person is, they're doing the rail industry a disservice by confusing customers. No excuses should be made for such misleading information.

As for bus and ship tickets, the only bus and ship tickets I have bought have been valid on any bus or ship, and with no 'peak' restrictions unlike the railways.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yep got to agree with you on that one, I mean even I know thats wrong and thats saying something

No problem

 

[mumrar]

I agree that the page is awful, probably information fourth hand given to someone who can code a website and has no interest in disseminating the information correctly. But yorkie, and I'm not going to misquote you here, 'who told you that? They need to be re-trained'. There was no inference to it being read off a page or leaflet, and written wrong, when you refer to 'who' and saying 'told you' that can only be a person, via the medium of speech. God that all looks pedantic, but still, it's my two pence worth on the subject. I felt you'd narrowed your opinions down to face to face contact being wrong without the facts.

 

[CarterUSM]

It is also a FACT that some passengers DO try to mislead staff, DO try to rip off staff and DO have an attitude problem towards staff! Though I must say, I have found them to be a very small minority, much like the staff.

 

[yorkie]

At the end of the day it's still a person responsible for that website. What matters is the message, not the medium. A website may be less 'personal' than face-to-face but it's still the rail industry giving out poor information. I hadn't narrowed it down to "the medium of speech" and was asking to establish the "facts". Now that the facts are known, I have made a specific comment establishing why the advice was so poor.

It may be Thetrainline at fault for the text, but ultimately the rail industry has invited Thetrainline to represent them, and Cross Country ultimately must take responsibility for inviting customers to obtain information from that website. I suspect the person who wrote it was badly trained and not very knowledgeable .

It is also a FACT that some passengers DO try to mislead staff, DO try to rip off staff and DO have an attitude problem towards staff! Though I must say, I have found them to be a very small minority, much like the staff.

Not sure how passengers can rip staff off, but the rest I can understand where you're coming from. However staff should bear in mind that revenue from customers and taxpayers pay their wages, so to mislead them is not acceptable.

 

[CarterUSM]

Absolutely, it is completely unnecessary to mislead anyone, i've alway found a little help goes a long way, and i'm more than happy to assist in finding the least expensive journey for passengers along with accurate information. Though as i've said to anyone who claims to pay my wages, 'may I have a pay rise'.