How hard is it to get on with a TOC?

[C J Snarzell]

Hello, I wanted to start this thread just to test the water and see if I'm not alone in my struggle to get on with a TOC.

I left the police service at the end of last year (2018). It was a well paid job but that was about the only real advantage - everything else was just awful. I chose to resign because mentally and physically the job was destroying me. I started working for a recruitment agency at the beginning of January and I'm still on a temporary contract doing warehouse work which is okay but not what I want to do until I'm 65. I don't want to rant about my experience with the police but needless to say I'm feeling 100% these days - sleeping well, no anxiety and hardly any worries in general.

Since February, I have applied for eight posts with Northern and Virgin trains as they cover most of the rail network in the North West of England where I live. One post was for a trainee conductor while the rest were in a customer service based role. I'm reluctant to apply for any driver roles because I just feel there are far better people out there to do that job and I personally feel I've not got the skills to be a good driver (poor eye sight for a start!!!). That said I'm really good dealing with people and working with others which is why I have gone for alternative jobs away from the rail tracks.

Unfortunately, all of my eight applications have failed at the paper sift. I actually redraughted my CV and cover letter but sadly it just doesn't seem enough to impress the likes of Northern. I used a professional CV writer (who is the daughter of a family friend) to help me on my CV and tweak up on anything that might be a negative to a potential employer. These included changing odd words and phrases that could make a difference with any application with a potential employer. Sadly, this has not proved fruitful which is a big let down.

I think any job with a TOC is beyond my reach and maybe there are already existing employees applying for the jobs internally which makes outsiders chances virtually impossible! I'm now looking at potential careers away from the rail industry because I simply feel the writing is on the wall with a lot of jobs advertised with TOCs.

I hate to sound negative as I'm definitely not a negative person. The object of this post was just to get my story across and see if anyone has experiencied difficulties like this?

C J

 

[Quin79]

Hello, I wanted to start this thread just to test the water and see if I'm not alone in my struggle to get on with a TOC.

I left the police service at the end of last year (2018). It was a well paid job but that was about the only real advantage - everything else was just awful. I chose to resign because mentally and physically the job was destroying me. I started working for a recruitment agency at the beginning of January and I'm still on a temporary contract doing warehouse work which is okay but not what I want to do until I'm 65. I don't want to rant about my experience with the police but needless to say I'm feeling 100% these days - sleeping well, no anxiety and hardly any worries in general.

Since February, I have applied for eight posts with Northern and Virgin trains as they cover most of the rail network in the North West of England where I live. One post was for a trainee conductor while the rest were in a customer service based role. I'm reluctant to apply for any driver roles because I just feel there are far better people out there to do that job and I personally feel I've not got the skills to be a good driver (poor eye sight for a start!!!). That said I'm really good dealing with people and working with others which is why I have gone for alternative jobs away from the rail tracks.

Unfortunately, all of my eight applications have failed at the paper sift. I actually redraughted my CV and cover letter but sadly it just doesn't seem enough to impress the likes of Northern. I used a professional CV writer (who is the daughter of a family friend) to help me on my CV and tweak up on anything that might be a negative to a potential employer. These included changing odd words and phrases that could make a difference with any application with a potential employer. Sadly, this has not proved fruitful which is a big let down.

I think any job with a TOC is beyond my reach and maybe there are already existing employees applying for the jobs internally which makes outsiders chances virtually impossible! I'm now looking at potential careers away from the rail industry because I simply feel the writing is on the wall with a lot of jobs advertised with TOCs.

I hate to sound negative as I'm definitely not a negative person. The object of this post was just to get my story across and see if anyone has experiencied difficulties like this?

C J

Have sent you a message

 

[Teddyward]

I applied for about 30 different railway jobs over the course of a year before I got the nod. It’s very competitive market. Keep plugging away.

 

[Stigy]

You have to keep chipping away. @C J Snarzell, have you considered a slightly different approach and looked at Network Rail jobs?

 

[ValentaFan1974]

It took me the best part of 10 years and numerous applications to get a job on the railway (and I come from a frontline customer service/manager background!!). As been said before, it’s an incredibly competitive market and there can be sometimes hundreds of applications for just one or two positions.

The lesson I learned in this is to never give up and keep trying. Eventually you’ll get there. All the best...

 

[Quin79]

It took me the best part of 10 years and numerous applications to get a job on the railway (and I come from a frontline customer service/manager background!!). As been said before, it’s an incredibly competitive market and there can be sometimes hundreds of applications for just one or two positions.

The lesson I learned in this is to never give up and keep trying. Eventually you’ll get there. All the best...

That is as long as you don't get through to assessment centres/interviews as only ever 2 shots in your lifetime at this stage...for trainee drivets roles anyway

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Yeah, drivers have limited chances, but other roles have no such limit.... “fill yer boots”

 

[baz962]

Took me eight years of applying to become a driver , although I didn't apply for hundreds. Even after passing all psychometric's it took me seven months and several applications.

 

[UPS1550]

Are the psychometric assessments something the TOCs have to use or is it something they just chose to do?

 

[craigybagel]

I'll echo the other comments and say keep on trying - and hopefully something good will come out of it. I'd also reject any assertion that you need to already be internal to get anywhere - aside from anything else all of us who work on the railway had to be an external candidate at one point in our lives, and in my case that happened twice as I moved TOCs. Plenty of externals get taken on for most roles, it's just there's also plenty of competition.

Yeah, drivers have limited chances, but other roles have no such limit.... “fill yer boots”

Some TOCs put limits on the amount of times you can sit the guards aptitude tests as well. And if you do sit them and fail, you may well be blocked from sitting them again for 6 months.

Also, many TOCs seem to have a policy for all jobs where if you're unsuccessful at any stage, you can't apply again for the same job at the same TOC for 6 months.

Are the psychometric assessments something the TOCs have to use or is it something they just chose to do?

When the "driver" of that DCR 47 at Stafford had a SPAD and the RAIB got involved, one of the issues there discovered was that he'd never sat any form of psychometric tests, so presumably not doing them is an issue.

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/signal-passed-at-danger-at-stafford

 

[OneLowban]

Looking, even glancing at this forum it’s clear to me that I had an extremely short job hunt, which lasted still, 6 months from application at TOC A to job offer with TOC B.

Also from this thread you can see you are not alone, don’t give up.

 

[Instructor_Guy]

I know how you feel, I've been a Driving Instructor for over five years and wanting a change of career. I've applied for six jobs in total, five with with two TOC's and one for a FOC in the space of 12 months.

I applied for a trainee driver job with the FOC last August but was unsuccessful at stage 1 thus costing me one life. My biggest downfall is getting past any online/psychometric testing, would've thought by now I would know how to pass them, clearly not!

It's a real shame, I feel like I have a lot to offer with experience from my current job but feel hasty about applying now in fear of being rejected again. Will keep trying though

 

[C J Snarzell]

Thanks for the updates on here.

When I finished in the police I realised I perhaps wouldn't get a job as well paid immediately (a constable on top salary now brings home just under 40k). Money isn't everything and I realised your health and well being is far more important than how much money you make.

What I've tried to do is aim my sights lower at jobs that are not as well paid as my last career and also ones that are more realistic to my skills and abilities. I've applied for two Northern apprenticeships and a couple of customer service assistants roles. Coming from a police background I have a lot of experience dealing with people and I thought these skills were tailor made for these jobs.

Unfortunately, like I said, I didn't get passed the paper sift stage which was extremely disappointing, especially as all the jobs have been on half the salary I was on last year. I think a few members on here have commented that Northern do seem to have a very off the wall recruitment procedure.

 

[OneLowban]

Why don’t you think you have the skills to be a driver?

If you feel you wouldn’t actually like the role that’s fair enough, but I wouldn’t rule it out easily. Loads of us have poor eyesight.

2 ex-police on my course wishing they did it sooner. (and a lot more on here or that I’ve heard of too)

 

[Stigy]

Why don’t you think you have the skills to be a driver?

If you feel you wouldn’t actually like the role that’s fair enough, but I wouldn’t rule it out easily. Loads of us have poor eyesight.

2 ex-police on my course wishing they did it sooner. (and a lot more on here or that I’ve heard of too)

Agreed. My eyesight was my biggest worry but I passed a medical. If I can do it, most should be able to as my eyesight, uncorrected is pretty poor

@C J Snarzell, the Police also have uncorrected vision standards, which are probably not a million miles from the min requirements of a Train Driver. From what I’ve read here, I don’t actually think uncorrected is a problem no matter how bad it is, as long as you meet the corrrcted standard. I also think the standard for any safety critical role is the same (pretty much), so if you’ve applied for Guard, apply for driver if you feel you’d enjoy it!

 

[jamesst]

Keep trying, you'll get there.

I was interviewed for a guard position at my toc three times and never got it. So I applied for a station assistant job then moved up to retailer, guard and have now been driving for a few years.
I'm afraid you just have to be incredibly patient.

 

[sw1ller]

The paper sift is probably the hardest part of the application. The biggest pointer on there is spelling and grammar (from your posts I doubt you have an issue, but please proof read your CV and applications, just in case)

On the subject of CVs. When I was applying and sending in a CV, I got nowhere, but when I stopped sending in CVs, I started making it a little further. I read on here one day that if they don’t ask for a CV, but you send one in, then that shows you can’t follow instructions. Now, I’m probably wrong with that, but something to consider.

I’m like the others here, excellent background that made me perfect (in my eyes) for the job but I just couldn’t get to the testing/interview stage. But with much tweaking of my application (save all your answers to a word doc for use at a later date) I got to the next stage, once there I was straight through. So don’t give up. Maybe broaden your horizons a bit. Check which guard depots (and driver depots, you may be surprised at how much you already suit the role) are near you using the sticker at the top of this sub-section.

Good luck.

 

[Red1980]

It's as easy or as hard as you make it. Put the work in and you'll get on.....sit there and wait for jobs to drop into your lap and you'll struggle.