Thoughts for the New Mainline Express for Northern Connect

[James Kevill]

Hi I'm new in the Rail UK Forums, feel free to ask me and answer any of my questions.

So here's my questions: After the Northern Connect for the Inter-Urban and Regional Express launches in either May like this month today or December 2019, could any of you think of any ideas for the future Northern Connect services, routes and future cascaded rolling stocks? It won't happen yet, I'm just giving you some ideas.

 

[DPWH]

Hi James,

Welcome to the forums.

I for one would like to accept your kind invitation to ask you some of your questions.

Could you think of any ideas for the future Northern Connect services, routes and future cascaded rolling stocks?

I look forward to you giving us some ideas.

 

[James Kevill]

Hi James,

Welcome to the forums.

I for one would like to accept your kind invitation to ask you some of your questions.

Could you think of any ideas for the future Northern Connect services, routes and future cascaded rolling stocks?

I look forward to you giving us some ideas.

No Problem and anytime, DPWH. Well I was thinking that 22 Class 185 Desiros from TransPennine Express, 37 Class 350/2 Desiros from London Northwestern Railway and 21 Class 360/1 and 5 Class 360 Desiros from Great Anglia and TfL Rail would be suitable to run on the new Mainline Express services after they will be replaced by Class 68, Mark 5A Carriages, Class 397 Civitys, Class 802 Agility Trains, Class 345 and 730 Aventras in 2019, 2020 and 2021. and the Class 350/2 Desiro will be converted into Battery Electric Multiple Units, they will be replaced by Aventras. and 360 Desiros could have upgraded into 110mph speed with the new Bracknell pantographs so they can run faster just like 350 Desiros.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Well I was thinking that 22 Class 185 Desiros from TransPennine Express

Welcome to the forum. TPE are now going to keep at least 8 extra 185's because of the Liverpool - Norwich being split. They may keep all 53 51 because of the talks between Eversholt (the ROSCO) & Irish Railways breaking down.

 

[James Kevill]

Welcome to the forum. TPE are now going to keep at least 8 extra 185's because of the Liverpool - Norwich being split. They may keep all 53 because of the talks between Eversholt (the ROSCO) & Irish Railways breaking down.

Thanks for welcoming me to this forum and that's great, and they are 51 units, not 53. I wanted all of the 51 Class 185 Desiros to stay in North of England where they still maintained Siemens depots anyway. and sending them to Ireland won't happen now, unless Northern would take some though if they are available. And I've heard that there's been a talks about TPE or EMR would make the service between Liverpool to Leicester, but the future is uncertain.

 

[James Kevill]

The Class 365 Networker Express would be suitable for the Mainline Express services if they are available. 9 units are stored so they could be used on the Mainline Express services

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Class 365 Networker Express would be suitable for the Mainline Express services if they are available. 9 units are stored so they could be used on the Mainline Express services

Got any wires going spare?

 

[LOL The Irony]

I wanted all of the 51 Class 185 Desiros to stay in North of England where they still maintained Siemens depots anyway. and sending them to Ireland won't happen now, unless Northern would take some though if they are available.

They will most likely stay north although some may wind up at EMR. The problem with staying north is that Ardwick depot will need to move for HS2.

And I've heard that there's been a talks about TPE or EMR would make the service between Liverpool to Leicester, but the future is uncertain.

It's being split in 2021 at Nottingham, with Liverpool - Nottingham going to TPE or Northern. See this thread.

 

[James Kevill]

Got any wires going spare?

Unless they would have the battery pack fitted

 

[James Kevill]

Northern Connect Mainline Express would make a list for a new services

Carlisle to Nottingham via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Carlisle to Birmingham New Street via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Newcastle to Nottingham via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Newcastle to Birmingham New Street via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Newcastle to Chester via Manchester Victoria
Blackpool North to Nottingham via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Blackpool North to Birmingham New Street via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Carlisle to Newcastle via Manchester Victoria
Manchester Airport to Birmingham New Street via Manchester Piccadilly and Newton-le-Willows
Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows

Some services could be could be extended to Glasgow Central from Carlisle on the West Coast Main Line only, Edinburgh Waverley from Newcastle on the East Coast Main Line only, and North Wales from Chester.

 

[Segedunum]

Newcastle to Birmingham via Preston and Manchester...

So that'd be via Hexham, Carlisle and Lancaster or York, Leeds and Blackburn thence via Bolton/Wigan, Manchester, Crewe/Stoke, Stafford, Wolverhampton?

I dread to think how long such an "express" would take- also falls off Northern's usual remit south of Crewe/Stoke...

 

[James Kevill]

Newcastle to Birmingham via Preston and Manchester...

So that'd be via Hexham, Carlisle and Lancaster or York, Leeds and Blackburn thence via Bolton/Wigan, Manchester, Crewe/Stoke, Stafford, Wolverhampton?

I dread to think how long such an "express" would take- also falls off Northern's usual remit south of Crewe/Stoke...

Hmmm you mean from Newcastle to Birmingham via Leeds and Manchester not Preston. Otherwise the Express train would have to reverse at Carlisle if it does, it'll slow things down or something. Or maybe you're suggesting that the Express services would be the circular route and the services between Carlisle to Birmingham via Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds and Manchester. That's the great idea and a great suggestion about it.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I dread to think how long such an "express" would take- also falls off Northern's usual remit south of Crewe/Stoke...

TfW operate services that don't even enter Wales so I don't see how that's a problem.

 

[Segedunum]

Hmmm you mean from Newcastle to Birmingham via Leeds and Manchester not Preston. Otherwise the Express train would have to reverse at Carlisle if it does, it'll slow things down or something. Or maybe you're suggesting that the Express services would be the circular route and the services between Carlisle to Birmingham via Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds and Manchester. That's the great idea and a great suggestion about it.

Well, no, I'm quoting the route suggested in your post (and should have properly quoted it from your post too).

 

[James Kevill]

Well, no, I'm quoting the route suggested in your post (and should have properly quoted it from your post too).

Ok, so tell me what do you think its the best and which routes would be better?

 

[Harvey B]

Are the services that were introduced in the may timetable change such as
Leeds to Chester and York to Blackpool North going to be to be re branded as Northern connect (stop at the same stops as they currently do at the moment) or will it be a different service which only stops at major stops (e.g York to Blackpool North's major stops are: York, Leeds, Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool North) and misses all the non-major stops such as Poulton Le Fylde, Accrington, ect

 

[edwin_m]

Not sure about which ones come in during May but the original concept was a bit of a mixture. For example Sheffield-Lincoln will run fast to Worksop with the all-stations service cut back to Gainsborough, but I think York-Blackpool keeps its existing stopping pattern (it's certainly not an extra service but some minor stops may transfer to Manchester trains).

 

[Harvey B]

Not sure about which ones come in during May but the original concept was a bit of a mixture. For example Sheffield-Lincoln will run fast to Worksop with the all-stations service cut back to Gainsborough, but I think York-Blackpool keeps its existing stopping pattern (it's certainly not an extra service but some minor stops may transfer to Manchester trains).

Thanks alot

 

[30907]

Are the services that were introduced in the may timetable change such as
Leeds to Chester and York to Blackpool North going to be to be re branded as Northern connect (stop at the same stops as they currently do at the moment) or will it be a different service which only stops at major stops (e.g York to Blackpool North's major stops are: York, Leeds, Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool North) and misses all the non-major stops such as Poulton Le Fylde, Accrington, ect

Define "major"! Accrington and Burnley would object to being missed out... and in traffic terms would justify the stop.

 

[edwin_m]

Define "major"! Accrington and Burnley would object to being missed out... and in traffic terms would justify the stop.

I can't see them being missed but last time I looked the Blackpool was calling at the likes of Mytholmroyd.

 

[Harvey B]

Define "major"! Accrington and Burnley would object to being missed out... and in traffic terms would justify the stop.

Major as in towns and cities such as Leeds, Bradford and Halifax

 

[edwin_m]

Major as in towns and cities such as Leeds, Bradford and Halifax

I'd like to think they wouldn't eliminate the stop at Bradford Interchange ... there might be quite a big bang.

Taking out the stops at Blackburn/Accrington/Burnley would deny access east of the Pennines for these places and leave them with just all-stations services, which doesn't strike me as good enough. In the case of Accrington non-stop trains have to pass through so slowly that the time saving is pretty small.

 

[Harvey B]

I'd like to think they wouldn't eliminate the stop at Bradford Interchange ... there might be quite a big bang.

Taking out the stops at Blackburn/Accrington/Burnley would deny access east of the Pennines for these places and leave them with just all-stations services, which doesn't strike me as good enough. In the case of Accrington non-stop trains have to pass through so slowly that the time saving is pretty small.

In this case Blackburn would count as "major". I think its likely to keep the stopping pattern it has now but other people have told me in the 195 thread (I think) that none of the Northern Connect services has started yet which is making me confused about whether theres going to be the same stopping pattern/service as they now or a different and more faster service altogether which skips stops such as Accrington, Poulton, Rose Grove, Burnley, ect and only stops at stops like blackburn, Halifax, Bradford, Leeds, Preston, ect.

My gut feeling makes me believe the former (keeping the same stopping pattern as before) since some of the NC services/ services that are going to be NC branded started in May but this other user that told me that NC hasn't started yet makes me think otherwise.

 

[158756]

In this case Blackburn would count as "major". I think its likely to keep the stopping pattern it has now but other people have told me in the 195 thread (I think) that none of the Northern Connect services has started yet which is making me confused about whether theres going to be the same stopping pattern/service as they now or a different and more faster service altogether which skips stops such as Accrington, Poulton, Rose Grove, Burnley, ect and only stops at stops like blackburn, Halifax, Bradford, Leeds, Preston, ect.

My gut feeling makes me believe the former (keeping the same stopping pattern as before) since some of the NC services/ services that are going to be NC branded started in May but this other user that told me that NC hasn't started yet makes me think otherwise.

There has been no indication of any increase in the number of services on these routes, so it will just be the existing service rebranded. I don't know why Blackpool-York includes a stop at Mytholmroyd though, that's been introduced by the current franchise but wasn't required by the DfT.

 

[Harvey B]

There has been no indication of any increase in the number of services on these routes, so it will just be the existing service rebranded. I don't know why Blackpool-York includes a stop at Mytholmroyd though, that's been introduced by the current franchise but wasn't required by the DfT.

Thanks, in regards to the service stopping at Mytholmroyd I think its always included the stop there as the present Northern service and when it was York to Preston (and I think it was the same when it used to be York to Blackpool North before it got cut back to preston)

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks, in regards to the service stopping at Mytholmroyd I think its always included the stop there as the present Northern service and when it was York to Preston (and I think it was the same when it used to be York to Blackpool North before it got cut back to preston)

It certainly wasn't there ten years or so back, and I think last time I looked it was in one direction only. So probably a peculiarity of the timetable that for some pathing reason they can't fit it into one of the slower Manchester trains.

 

[6Gman]

Northern Connect Mainline Express would make a list for a new services

Carlisle to Nottingham via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Carlisle to Birmingham New Street via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Newcastle to Nottingham via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Newcastle to Birmingham New Street via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Newcastle to Chester via Manchester Victoria
Blackpool North to Nottingham via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Blackpool North to Birmingham New Street via Preston and Manchester Piccadilly
Carlisle to Newcastle via Manchester Victoria
Manchester Airport to Birmingham New Street via Manchester Piccadilly and Newton-le-Willows
Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows

You are @PR1Berske , and I claim my £5 prize!

Seriously, at what frequency would these services operate?

 

[Iskra]

You are @PR1Berske , and I claim my £5 prize!

Seriously, at what frequency would these services operate?

Annually, by WCRC

I could actually imagine TPE being up for most of those, considering there more recent route expansions...

...which raises an interesting question, at what point does a Northern Connect service become a service that TPE should be running. The lines between the two franchises are blurring...

 

[158756]

I could actually imagine TPE being up for most of those, considering there more recent route expansions...

...which raises an interesting question, at what point does a Northern Connect service become a service that TPE should be running. The lines between the two franchises are blurring...

I think the distinction is (slightly) clearer than it used to be - TPE operate on the principle routes via Standedge and the Hope Valley, plus the West Coast Scotland services. They've shed the North West regional routes. Huddersfield stoppers and in future Redcar are for operational convenience. Anything else is Northern's business

 

[PR1Berske]

You are @PR1Berske , and I claim my £5 prize!

Seriously, at what frequency would these services operate?

Even I'm perplexed by Newcastle via Preston!