ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Northhighland]

If they're running 2 x 158 vice HST then they're actually providing more capacity but don't let that get in the way of yet another ill informed rant.

Not doing that though are they? just a 170 last week twice I was on it.

 

[mcmad]

there were 2 x 158's running on Friday though.

 

[kidman123]

What is the situation with these sets.bi see them everyday at Haymarket depot and majority is in the depot every day think I see 2 refurbs and umpteen classics. Ok there is I say If3 get used but the rest is stabled. If there not using them why hire them in the first place.

 

[Northhighland]

there were 2 x 158's running on Friday though.

One swallow doesn't make a summer

 

[Railperf]

It isn't surprising that the Scotrail fleet are suffering reliability issues ...when GWR couldn't even keep their own 'celebrity' power cars in good condition for the last public day of HST operation and Flying banana rail tour - in spite of having all the expertise to deal with them at Laira and St Philps Marsh still.

43185 (swallow livery) was reportedly knackered and sent off-lease after the 18th. 43002 suffered battery charging issues on the 18th and power car shut down, and overheating alternator on the flying banana rail tour which again caused power car shut down. Have they got enough expertise in Scotland to keep these things going?

 

[John Bishop]

2 x paths for the refurb set from Perth to Inverness both caped yesterday.

 

[Highlandspring]

Have they got enough expertise in Scotland to keep these things going?

Some experienced fitters came to Haymarket from Craigentinny when Hitachi took over the latter. There are 24/7 support contracts in place with Brush and MTU and I’ve heard that the project also has input from some very experienced and knowledgeable old HST folk who’ve been working on them more or less since they were new. Work started long before the first set arrived to properly equip Haymarket and Inverness with the right tools and train the depot staff in maintenance procedures; lots went to Laira to learn. Lots has been learnt since they arrived too!

 

[Carntyne]

It isn't surprising that the Scotrail fleet are suffering reliability issues

11/11 out today.

 

[Railperf]

Great news. Refurb units or does that include classic sets ? How many additional sets due and when?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has anyone noticed that the "city skyline" transfers on the refurbished set (which is very nice inside other than the rubbish lighting which really should have been fully replaced) are picking up the muck far worse than the paint and thus are looking very tatty?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they're running 2 x 158 vice HST then they're actually providing more capacity but don't let that get in the way of yet another ill informed rant.

And if they're an Inverness set the same seats in a very similar layout! No 1st though.

 

[Northhighland]

Some experienced fitters came to Haymarket from Craigentinny when Hitachi took over the latter. There are 24/7 support contracts in place with Brush and MTU and I’ve heard that the project also has input from some very experienced and knowledgeable old HST folk who’ve been working on them more or less since they were new. Work started long before the first set arrived to properly equip Haymarket and Inverness with the right tools and train the depot staff in maintenance procedures; lots went to Laira to learn. Lots has been learnt since they arrived too!

Good news good staff are key and as I have always said 170’s were well maintained no reason to fault staff if HST not running.

What is the state of the vehicles handed over like?
Is it the power cars need extensive refurb?

 

[Goldromans]

Any news on how things are going at Wabtec Kilmarnock?

 

[JLUK144]

Any news on how things are going at Wabtec Kilmarnock?

Another HST set went down to Kilmarnock just over a week ago.

 

[chuff chuff]

It gets a little disappointing to see the power cars out in service with the same faults for weeks at a time.We were supposedly awash with power cars if they're sending power cars out with the same fault week after week how bad are the rest.

 

[InvHst]

11/11 out today.

Hate to burst the bubble should be 15 diagrams but scotrail Don't want you knowing that it's a complete failure this timetable and everyone knows it capacity issues on the hml are gonna be horrendous over the summer and that's due to them failing the training programme which restarts in August and will result in numerous cancellations again

 

[43096]

Another HST set went down to Kilmarnock just over a week ago.

Not certain that is for refurb, though. It had a TGS in it and all the vehicles in it were from those recently taken on for the extra classic sets, which I don’t believe are part of the long term fleet.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

11/11 ??

Er, yeah only just. As has been correctly pointed out, same faults different day, with no clue how to resolve them.

Tick-tock

 

[jingsmonty]

And if they're an Inverness set the same seats in a very similar layout! No 1st though.

I don't think you could compare travelling in a 4 car 158 to an HST! It's not all about 'bums on seats'....as another has said, no 1st class, for one thing

 

[jingsmonty]

Well, I had 43163 twice in 2 days with 2 isolated traction motors (it also stopped giving any amps at all on the 2nd day, so no traction power at all). My heart sank when I had the same set the next week, only to discover - it was fixed & ran like a dream.

It gets a little disappointing to see the power cars out in service with the same faults for weeks at a time.We were supposedly awash with power cars if they're sending power cars out with the same fault week after week how bad are the rest.

 

[nat67]

Well, I had 43163 twice in 2 days with 2 isolated traction motors (it also stopped giving any amps at all on the 2nd day, so no traction power at all). My heart sank when I had the same set the next week, only to discover - it was fixed & ran like a dream.

And 43163 is not even a GEC traction motor power car. It just seems that the fitters are struggling to still get to grips with HST's.

 

[Northhighland]

Well, I had 43163 twice in 2 days with 2 isolated traction motors (it also stopped giving any amps at all on the 2nd day, so no traction power at all). My heart sank when I had the same set the next week, only to discover - it was fixed & ran like a dream.

Are you thinking the power cars are in poor condition and needing refurb or just teething troubles?

11 sets out today is isn’t even 75% of scheduled service. Not a great start. Coupling to 158’s together is better than a 170 but really better to just get the HST sets working reliably so reservations etc are consistent and all in place.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Well, I had 43163 twice in 2 days with 2 isolated traction motors (it also stopped giving any amps at all on the 2nd day, so no traction power at all). My heart sank when I had the same set the next week, only to discover - it was fixed & ran like a dream.

Noticed I was labouring leaving Elgin today, then the rear packed in just in time for Mulben . Various other reasons for no amps flying around also

 

[chuff chuff]

Driving these things should be a pleasure and occasionally is but even when things are going okay you still have a slight feeling of dread waiting for something to happen. But to see the same power cars out and about with the same fault for weeks you start to wonder if they'll ever get on top of things.

 

[jingsmonty]

Are you thinking the power cars are in poor condition and needing refurb or just teething troubles?

11 sets out today is isn’t even 75% of scheduled service. Not a great start. Coupling to 158’s together is better than a 170 but really better to just get the HST sets working reliably so reservations etc are consistent and all in place.

43163 IS a refurbished power car. I think some of the issues are, paradoxically, because the power cars haven't actually been used very much! I know there's a modification programme on the go (separate to the refurbishment) which is meant to deal with the issues that have cropped up with us. For example, battery charging & speedo faults being 2 of them.

 

[jingsmonty]

Driving these things should be a pleasure and occasionally is but even when things are going okay you still have a slight feeling of dread waiting for something to happen. But to see the same power cars out and about with the same fault for weeks you start to wonder if they'll ever get on top of things.

The only time I've not enjoyed driving an HST was the rather warm & sunny day were the cab a/c wasn't working. Good job the cab doors aren't interlocked.... Even the day I had 43163 leading with no amps, I still enjoyed it - for one thing, it wasn't much different to a 170 on full power & it was good to feel what it was like to drive a set with all the power coming from the rear PC.

Apart from that, they're just a totally different driving experience from a DMU!

 

[chuff chuff]

I think the use of the word refurbished is over used in regard to the power cars,other than the necessary traction interlock equipment fitted your looking at a bit of paint and sticky back plastic. As jingsmonty has said scotrail have identified several areas that need work,how quickly that can or will be done who knows I've only seen one speedo that was no longer one of the ATP ones.
I think scotrail made the mistake of thinking they were getting power cars that were in good working order and have had to rethink that.
Yes the performance of these hst’s are only slightly dented by these faults (traction motor problems,loss of amps etc) but it's length of time that these take to get sorted that grinds.That said I do feel for fleet as they've had these things dumped on them and unfortunately for the most part they've been sold a pup.

 

[CJSwan]

I was on one of the refurbished HSTs last week on the 16:02 Aberdeen to Edinburgh (I forget which day) and there were a few parts of the train, in various carriages, were rain water was making its way into the passenger saloon. Many wet seats, floors and passengers!

 

[43096]

I think the use of the word refurbished is over used in regard to the power cars,other than the necessary traction interlock equipment fitted your looking at a bit of paint and sticky back plastic.

It’s more extensive than that, but it is essentially bodywork only. There is extensive corrosion repair being done and the cabs come off and go away for specialist repair/overhaul. The shortly to be published HST Haynes Manual (available here: https://www.125group.org.uk/product/inter-city-125-haynes-manual/) has photos of the work in progress, I believe.

 

[Mingulay]

I was on one of the refurbished HSTs last week on the 16:02 Aberdeen to Edinburgh (I forget which day) and there were a few parts of the train, in various carriages, were rain water was making its way into the passenger saloon. Many wet seats, floors and passengers!

If the refurbished stock is leaking already that is unacceptable and does not bode well for life of this programme.

I noticed a few weeks ago crossing a foot bridge at Waverley over a refurbished set at rest. That it was clear that the roof had lots of patches of various sizes along the roof surface. Then painted over. I am surprised refurbishment extends to just patching . As in any flat ish roof. That’s a short term fix . Was that all that was done to weatherproof?

I will no doubt be shot down by those with more knowledge. But I had a flat lead roof replaced with a fibreglass membrane . Looks like lead but lightweight and easily applied over profiled surface and repaired and cheaper. I wonder whether a similar technique could have been used on the carriage roof. Perhaps not flexible enough? There are very strong rubber like membranes tat are used in flat roofs that are bonded to the roof and give a uniform seamless watertight finish.