Suitable Routes for Parry’s People Mover

[Llandudno]

In an effort to improve frequency/connectivity on lightly used routes, perhaps with the added benefit of saving a larger 2/3 car set, are there any routes or part routes that could benefit from a Parry’s People Mover style unit?

Helsby to Ellesmere Port
Lancaster to Morecambe
Avonmouth to Severn Beach
Gobowen to Oswestry!!
Par to Newquay
Cleethorpes to Barton
Llandudno to Llandudno Junction on the opposite half hour to the through trains
Part of the Brigg Line

 

[ValleyLines142]

In an effort to improve frequency/connectivity on lightly used routes, perhaps with the added benefit of saving a larger 2/3 car set, are there any routes or part routes that could benefit from a Parry’s People Mover style unit?

Helsby to Ellesmere Port
Lancaster to Morecambe
Avonmouth to Severn Beach
Gobowen to Oswestry!!
Par to Newquay
Cleethorpes to Barton
Llandudno to Llandudno Junction on the opposite half hour to the through trains
Part of the Brigg Line

Par to Newquay?! Tell me you're joking!

May as well put one on a service out of Waterloo

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Maybe a few branch lines closed in Beeching such as Brize Norton/Witney to Oxford.

 

[Llandudno]

Par to Newquay?! Tell me you're joking!

May as well put one on a service out of Waterloo

With the exception of Summer Saturdays are the trains to Newquay that busy?

If they are then surely more than the current 5 trains per day are warranted?

It seems absurd that the first train out of Newquay on a weekday is 1013, is this the latest first train of the day from any branch line terminus in the UK?

 

[gazthomas]

I've suggested Llandudno to the Junction before, though the D train is a better option which we'll see soon. I think some of the routes you've suggested are far longer than the Parry People Mover could go, and it's 20mph speed limit is a problem. I know PPM have proposed larger units but why bother?

 

[BJames]

With the exception of Summer Saturdays are the trains to Newquay that busy?

If they are then surely more than the current 5 trains per day are warranted?

It seems absurd that the first train out of Newquay on a weekday is 1013, is this the latest first train of the day from any branch line terminus in the UK?

They can be quite busy, although it's been a while since I took the stopping service along that line - I was on an 8 car HST last time I went down to Newquay, and it definitely emptied out for the branch line, but was much busier on its return. It's a single branch line, and only a crossing point at Goonbarrow Junction as far as I'm aware. There is a real limit to how many services can run. And of course, the journey from Par to Newquay is around 50 minutes, as there is a low speed limit on that branch line.

 

[Train Maniac]

I think the D train is a far better option for small branch line work. More capacity, faster speeds, better flexibility.

 

[philthetube]

With the exception of Summer Saturdays are the trains to Newquay that busy?

If they are then surely more than the current 5 trains per day are warranted?

It seems absurd that the first train out of Newquay on a weekday is 1013, is this the latest first train of the day from any branch line terminus in the UK?

Heysham Port. Bit different though.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Alnwick to Alnmouth?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Maybe a few branch lines closed in Beeching such as Brize Norton/Witney to Oxford.

Definitely not that branch, if it ever were to re-open. (I think it would work as a light railway-cum-tram though and would favour its development as such, probably not wholly on its original route, at least at the Oxford end).

Why not? (a) it's far too long. The ride quality (and tortoise-like speed) of the PPM is just about tolerable from Stourbridge Junction to Stourbridge Town, but on a journey of over 10/15 miles, it would repel more passengers than it would attract.

(b) infrastructure. The slow speed of these trains is not suited to the busy sections of line between Oxford station and Wolvercote junction, and then along the sensitive single-track section of the North Cotswolds line, before the branching point for the Witney branch.

(c) Capacity. The Stagecoach Gold services between Oxford and Witney run at such a frequency, and, at peak hours, with full buses, that a PPM would more likely than not be inadequate to deal with passenger numbers at busier times. The provision of a high quality bus service that runs from early in the morning to very late at night (and into the early hours at weekends) might well outcompete any train service (not least given how Witney has grown, and that any potential station location there - the former two sites now being unavailable - may not be convenient for many residents of the town (Whereas the Stagecoach Gold routes serve much of the town). Probably a Witney station would work best as a kind of parkway for the Oxfordshire Cotswolds, with a big car park. But where to put it?); at any rate the service would need to be a high-quality offering to attract the relatively wealthy population of the area, and a PPM is hard to sell in those terms.

Now, nearly, if the Radley to Abingdon branch were ever to reopen, yes, I could see that working with PPMs. Or a revival of the Wantage Tramway, from Wantage Road station (aka Wantage and Grove) to Wantage itself. Or the branch from Faringdon to a new junction station on the main line.

Small-scale, short branches without huge custom, in short.

 

[Llandudno]

I've suggested Llandudno to the Junction before, though the D train is a better option which we'll see soon. I think some of the routes you've suggested are far longer than the Parry People Mover could go, and it's 20mph speed limit is a problem. I know PPM have proposed larger units but why bother?

Crikey, I didn’t realise that a PPM could only do 20 MPH, so not much use really!

Looking forward to seeing the D Trains in North Wales, does anyone know how many of these units are being refurbished for use throughout the UK, and if, proved successful, what is the total number of potential D trains available?

 

[randyrippley]

not enough capacity to work Lancaster-Morecambe, and the low speed would disrupt the WCML between Lancaster and Carnforth

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Definitely not that branch, if it ever were to re-open. (I think it would work as a light railway-cum-tram though and would favour its development as such, probably not wholly on its original route, at least at the Oxford end).

Why not? (a) it's far too long. The ride quality (and tortoise-like speed) of the PPM is just about tolerable from Stourbridge Junction to Stourbridge Town, but on a journey of over 10/15 miles, it would repel more passengers than it would attract.

(b) infrastructure. The slow speed of these trains is not suited to the busy sections of line between Oxford station and Wolvercote junction, and then along the sensitive single-track section of the North Cotswolds line, before the branching point for the Witney branch.

(c) Capacity. The Stagecoach Gold services between Oxford and Witney run at such a frequency, and, at peak hours, with full buses, that a PPM would more likely than not be inadequate to deal with passenger numbers at busier times. The provision of a high quality bus service that runs from early in the morning to very late at night (and into the early hours at weekends) might well outcompete any train service (not least given how Witney has grown, and that any potential station location there - the former two sites now being unavailable - may not be convenient for many residents of the town (Whereas the Stagecoach Gold routes serve much of the town). Probably a Witney station would work best as a kind of parkway for the Oxfordshire Cotswolds, with a big car park. But where to put it?); at any rate the service would need to be a high-quality offering to attract the relatively wealthy population of the area, and a PPM is hard to sell in those terms.

Now, nearly, if the Radley to Abingdon branch were ever to reopen, yes, I could see that working with PPMs. Or a revival of the Wantage Tramway, from Wantage Road station (aka Wantage and Grove) to Wantage itself. Or the branch from Faringdon to a new junction station on the main line.

Small-scale, short branches without huge custom, in short.

Good candidates could be:

Alnwick to Alnmouth
Radley to Abingdon
Faringdon to a Reopened Uffington Station

The lines could be provide a high frequency low capacity shuttle trains to main line stations. Any other candidates?

Thanks for the summary on Witney Line.

 

[randyrippley]

A suitable use would be as a shuttle between the two Yeovil stations
even better would be a reinstated link on lightweight track - possibly shared with a footpath - to the site of the old town station, linking all three

 

[Bertie the bus]

PPMs are classed as light rail vehicles and can’t work on routes used by heavy rail vehicles. So to answer the question which routes are suitable? The answer is none, or next to none anyway.

 

[Revilo]

Bere Alston to Gunnislake when the Tavistock service starts (if ever!)

 

[christopher]

Romford to Upminster?

 

[6Gman]

Bere Alston to Gunnislake when the Tavistock service starts (if ever!)

Given the gradient I can imagine the speeds being sub-3mph

 

[Iskra]

Cardiff Bay shuttle?

 

[pdeaves]

Alresford-Alton (actually, Go-op proposed this but nothing came of it after lots of 'it's still happening but a little delayed' promises).

 

[PeterC]

Romford to Upminster?

I have only used the line off peak 20+ years ago and based on that experience I would agree but what are peak loadings like now? If you are going to need a full sized unit for part of the day then it is better to have it there all the time rather than block the GEML to move it on and off the branch a couple of times a day.

My first thought was Chesham to Chalfont which has the advantage of a siding to shunt the PPM for the morning and evening through trains. However off peak the 2tph Chesham trains have to go somewhere so why not carry a bit of fresh air up and down the branch rather than buy/lease a special unit?

Witney does need its rail service back but, considering the regular delays on the Eynsham and Wolvercote roundabouts there is probably more supressed demand than a PPM could handle, not to mention the high frequency and quality of the competing bus routes.

All in all I think that the PPM is a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My first thought was Chesham to Chalfont which has the advantage of a siding to shunt the PPM for the morning and evening through trains

It's through trains all day now, since the S-stock was introduced. 2 to Amersham and 2 to Chesham. This probably makes more sense overall.

 

[VT 390]

Cardiff Bay shuttle?

Whenever I have used this service it has been busy so I think it needs more capacity not less.

 

[PeterC]

It's through trains all day now, since the S-stock was introduced. 2 to Amersham and 2 to Chesham. This probably makes more sense overall.

Having lived there for a quarter of a century I had noticed. I have also noticed how much fresh air is moved up and down the branch by the S stock on the off peaks. It was just suggested as technically more feasible than a previous suggestion of Romford - Upminster if you are desparate to deploy a PPM for no valid reason other than wanting more PPMs in use which is pretty well what this thread is about.