Southern 313s and 508s

[Fincra5]

On a slightly different note, two 313s in prospective Southern Livery have been observed at Willesden depot recently. Evidence would suggest that the light green does not extend beyond the first set of double doors and the front of the unit is as they are now but the centre door is painted light green (yuk) which clashes nicely with the yellow! Someone has posted a short and very shaky video of these units at Willesden TMD on YouTube which can be seen:-

HERE

I have to say i think they look good in Southern livery. Somewhat smarter compared to the silverlink livery.

 

[87015]

I have to say i think they look good in Southern livery. Somewhat smarter compared to the silverlink livery.

I think they look dismal!

 

[Voyager 2093]

Don't believe everything you read

The Angel Trains proposal was about to be swept away, before someone in DafT did some quick thinking, and came up with a good idea, which went something like this... Transfer the 350/1s to SWT, deal with the 10-car trains. Order new Desiros for WC, and TPE, which can be designed to be mainline express standard from the start. Why? The Edb/Manc runs are to be transferred to elektrikity with the electrification in the NW, using the existing 350/1s with LM. Might as well deal with both, as well as leaving extra capacity in place.

But of course, because it's a good idea, it'll probably be ignored

I thought the original plan was to order more Desiros for LM in order to allow some 350s to move to TPE so it will have immidiate AC Stock when electrfied also a certain amount of 319s were to move up to TPE. However with this some 185s would have to be stored, doesnt make much economic sense.

 

[Aictos]

Huh, 185s won't have to be stored as I believe the plan is for the 185s to be use to increase seating capacity by using pairs of 185s rather then using a single 185.
I know The Planner is probably better to ask but I'm sure that is or was the plan for them.

A batch of 350s were going to be cascaded from London Midland to Transpennine to use on the Manchester to Scotland services with the 319s being used on the local Northern services.

So have no idea why you would think 185s would need to be stored, over to you The Planner,

 

[Voyager 2093]

Just what I heard to be honest. Ill let an official source make this clearer.

 

[Pumbaa]

I thought the original plan was to order more Desiros for LM in order to allow some 350s to move to TPE so it will have immidiate AC Stock when electrfied also a certain amount of 319s were to move up to TPE. However with this some 185s would have to be stored, doesnt make much economic sense.

That was the first plan, and this will happen if the 350s do not get sent to SWT. Things can change all the time y'know!

 

[Metadyneman]

I think they look dismal

Totally agree. They look awful with that snot green front door!

 

[RobShipway]

I think 24 out of the 30 class 458 trains will get an MSO carriage from calss 460 as follows:

• 67601-67630 - DMCO
• 74001-74030 - PTSO
• 74101-74130 – MSO
• Class 460 MSO
• 67701-67730 - DMCO

This would leave eight each of the following carriages : DMLFO, DMSO, TFO, TCO, TSO as spares.

 

[Fincra5]

Totally agree. They look awful with that snot green front door!

Yes im not keen on the front but i dnt think the side is half bad...

 

[paul1609]

.

Anyway, with regards to the 313s/508s, would it not make sense to run every local service out of Brighton with them? I'm not suggesting somewhere daft or distant such as Hsstings or Portsmouth, but certainly as far as Littlehampton (and the Bognor shuttle) and Eastbourne?

There's except odd workings in the peaks actually no local service from Brighton that goes further than West Worthing. Durrington, Goring and Littlehampton are only served by the 2 TPH Victoria services. Angmering additionally has stops on the semi fast Brighton to Portsmouth and Southampton services.

The Littlehampton to Bognor Shuttle is not currently a self-contained diagram. There is a stopping service from Littlehampton to Portsmouth and Southsea which might be suitable for 313s but there are apparently issues with having traction knowledge at Barnham depot.

 

[Voyager 2093]

Saw two 313s coupled up at Willesden Junction on the fast lines maybe going to Wolverton. I couldnt get the numbers as I was on the Bus.

 

[DjU]

Saw two 313s coupled up at Willesden Junction on the fast lines maybe going to Wolverton. I couldnt get the numbers as I was on the Bus.

They weren't going to Wolverton, what you saw were two LOROL units going for warm storage at Princess Royal Distribution Centre.

Units 313121 & 313122

 

[Fincra5]

Well apparently now a stopping service from littlehampton-portsmouth will be a 313.

 

[royaloak]

could be a bit of a p1sser! (no toilets ) sorry

 

[Metadyneman]

Well with Southern introducing 313s on the coastway lines and Brighton & Hove buses buying 4 bendy buses, things are really sliding in a down hill direction nicely!!

 

[Fincra5]

At least the bendy buses are for the 25 only (i was told).

 

[paul1609]

could be a bit of a p1sser! (no toilets ) sorry

Actually the journeys only about 35 miles (55 mins) so that wouldnt be a problem.
Very few people make the full journey on these trains. The markets basically Littlehampton and intermediate villages to Chichester, Intermediate halts to Havant for Waterloo, and Havant to Pompey suburban service.

However staff over here are adamant that 313s will be used on West Worthing to Brighton, Brighton to East Coastway services and some south london metro services, I guess we will see!

 

[royaloak]

Can't see Southern splitting the fleet up and working in 2 seperate areas, what with the problems coupling to other trains at times of failure, better to keep them working together.

 

[Fincra5]

I very much doubt any South London working as these trains will have nothing else to couple to.

The 376s will have a longer jounrey time than the 313s and they don;t have toilets, all be it by a couple of minutes

 

[Ivo]

Well with Southern introducing 313s on the coastway lines and Brighton & Hove buses buying 4 bendy buses, things are really sliding in a down hill direction nicely!!

This must be the first bad thing I've ever heard about B&H! To be fair, there are numerous Uni routes in this country that use bendy buses now (one stops two minutes from my room!), so the 25 would be an obvious example. Not sure they would be so useful on the N25, though... Brighton can be a pretty nasty place sometimes (as we all know), and I'm not sure I like the idea of using a bendy between the "city" centre and two Universities which are pretty much next door to each other!

By the way, and ignoring any potential issues with blocking off the BML, is it possible for a service to run on both the East Coastway and West Coastway routes by reversing at Brighton? Call this optimistic if you will, but they could always introduce a tunnel under Brighton station (complete with platforms 9 and 10), allowing for a Metro-style cross-city route between Lewes (and Seaford/Eastbourne) and (West) Worthing, thus freeing main station platforms for a resumed IC service or a permenent Gatwick Express run... [Like it'll happen! :roll: Still, would be ideal for a 313 in my view.]

 

[thelem]

By the way, and ignoring any potential issues with blocking off the BML, is it possible for a service to run on both the East Coastway and West Coastway routes by reversing at Brighton?

Yes, a 4 coach train can come into platform 3 from the west, and depart to the east, and platform 3 is in fact used for trains on both routes. You can't make it any longer than 4 coaches because of the junction for the west coastway route, see diagram at http://www.kentrail.co.uk/Brighton.htm

The disadvantages of doing this are longer route = more likely distuption, and not ideal to have to cross the London lines.

If such a service were desired, it might make more sense for it to reverse at Preston Park (i.e. Hove - Preston Park - London Road) which could take longer trains, and (by using platform 2) would only need to cross one direction of London traffic at a time. It would require a new chord Preston Part - London Road, but that looks fairly simple.

 

[Fincra5]

I think the main problem is that large disruption could be made, the trains would have to cross a few lines. Over the mainline, which is fairly busy. Its simpler keeping them as East and West Coastway trains .

 

[acg5324]

If such a service were desired, it might make more sense for it to reverse at Preston Park (i.e. Hove - Preston Park - London Road) which could take longer trains, and (by using platform 2) would only need to cross one direction of London traffic at a time. It would require a new chord Preston Part - London Road, but that looks fairly simple.

...and the slight problem of building a new viaduct to join on to this

Cross Brighton services have run on and off over the years but with the 14 trains an hour minimum in and out of Brighton from the mainline and another 2 to be added to December pathing is a big problem. By spliting the service delays on the west coastway don't migrate to the east coastway and v/v....much.

 

[Metadyneman]

The west Worthing to Seaford service used to run right through in the Connex days using 3-COP units. It was a really useful service and I used it regularly to get from Portslade to Lewes. It was extremely useful not having to de train at Brighton and traipse across all the platforms to the eastern side of Brighton Station. Perhaps if we are to have these awful 313s the least Southern could do is re-instate the "through" trains.

 

[MCR247]

But now it would cause distruption, and there is only one platform that ca be used

 

[Fincra5]

And as andy said any disruption on west coastway could cause disruption on east coastway, and v/v. Its fine the way it is