London to Norwich - 90 min timings

[Railperf]

I don't think it makes that much difference to be honest but they seem to.

As long as 001 doesn't lose a traction motor i reckon a full load should be okay - especially if it remains dry.
But knowing the route as well as I do, i'm convinced the risk is something else will go wrong rather than the set not being able to perform.

Actually i recall having some good performances out of 036 over the years.

 

[Railperf]

4.54MW continuous
4.7MW maximum

From a BR technical document and just about every publication that quotes such information.

By the time a Class 90 has reached its 110mph top speed it can be up to 25 secs ahead of the 91 - which is quite useful on some of the shorter stopping patterns - such as the Kings Cross to Newark Stoppers. I speak to drivers on a regular basis and they all agree the 90 is a faster accelerating loco.

 

[dk1]

As long as 001 doesn't lose a traction motor i reckon a full load should be okay - especially if it remains dry.
But knowing the route as well as I do, i'm convinced the risk is something else will go wrong rather than the set not being able to perform.

Actually i recall having some good performances out of 036 over the years.

Now you are bringing a tear to my eye

 

[hexagon789]

By the time a Class 90 has reached its 110mph top speed it can be up to 25 secs ahead of the 91 - which is quite useful on some of the shorter stopping patterns - such as the Kings Cross to Newark Stoppers. I speak to drivers on a regular basis and they all agree the 90 is a faster accelerating loco.

I know they are, combination of the shorter gearing and higher short-term power output.

As long as 001 doesn't lose a traction motor i reckon a full load should be okay - especially if it remains dry.
But knowing the route as well as I do, i'm convinced the risk is something else will go wrong rather than the set not being able to perform.

Station dwells and late running other services are probably the greatest risks to timekeeping.

 

[delticdave]

Help please, does anyone know what the passing times at Chelmsford for all 4 trains.

TIA DC

 

[Esker-pades]

Help please, does anyone know what the passing times at Chelmsford for all 4 trains.

TIA DC

9P91 (09:00 Norwich to London) - Passes Chelsmford at 10:02.
9P90 (11:00 London to Norwich) - Passes Chelsmford at 11:25.
9P91 (17:00 Norwich to London) - Passes Chelsmford at 18:02.
9P92 (19:00 London to Norwich) - Passes Chelsmford at 19:25.

 

[Railperf]

Currently 2 early ..now to see how they path it around an ex Southend and ex Clacton service ahead!

 

[Railperf]

1K45 ex Southend only a short way ahead...so either the Norwich in 90 will be slowed down behind at Stratford or routed around it...lets see....

 

[Royston Vasey]

1 1/4 early having departed 3/4 early!

 

[Railperf]

1K45 ex Southend only a short way ahead...so either the Norwich in 90 will be slowed down behind at Stratford or routed around it...lets see....

Lookd like they have done it in around 88 to 89 minutes. 2 mins ahead at Shenfield..but too close to the 1K45 so probably saw yellow sigs...was then back on time around 3 mins behind 1K45 which had a Stratford Stop. So was starting to see yellows until it vacated the platform...and then closely behind 1K45 all the way in. I wonder if the driver of 1K45 has been instructed to give it full welly to ensure he is at Shenfield on time and then to keep as far ahead of the Norwich service as he can! But then he relies on other services ahead also not being delayed. Does anyone know if the despatch staff at Startford were under strict instruction to get 1K45 unloaded and moving right time.

 

[09ndodge]

Done it... 1 minute early into LST http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G08264/2019/05/20/advanced

 

[Railperf]

Now we need it on time every day. Not just the press special.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

9P90 just did LST to IPS in 51 and 1/2 minutes, that's pretty good going with a clear run, nearly 80mph average!

 

[delticdave]

9P91 (09:00 Norwich to London) - Passes Chelsmford at 10:02.
9P90 (11:00 London to Norwich) - Passes Chelsmford at 11:25.
9P91 (17:00 Norwich to London) - Passes Chelsmford at 18:02.
9P92 (19:00 London to Norwich) - Passes Chelsmford at 19:25.

Thanks, I'll try & get to the great city of Chels m ford & get some pix.

Probably ride one of them on a Anglia Day Ranger later this week.

 

[Railperf]

The tin rocket done good. Who ever doubted her? Lol

 

[hexagon789]

The tin rocket done good. Who ever doubted her? Lol

Why the moniker "tin rocket"? I keep seeing this about.

Something about the loco that makes it better than others?

 

[East74]

The second and final southbound Norwich in 90 has just arrived at Liverpool Street, 7 minutes late because of delays at Bethnal Green. Look East has been covering it live. Greater Anglia regarding it as an aspiration to include more stops in the future when the new trains come into service.

 

[cle]

The second and final southbound Norwich in 90 has just arrived at Liverpool Street, 7 minutes late because of delays at Bethnal Green. Look East has been covering it live. Greater Anglia regarding it as an aspiration to include more stops in the future when the new trains come into service.

I don't understand the final part - surely the stops detract from the 90 mins? Or would it be able to keep time with the newer stock (e.g. add a Diss call perhaps?)

 

[JonathanH]

Hopes of Norwich in 90 on the 1900 seemingly in the bin just before Chelmsford.

1A94 1848 Liverpool Street to Harwich International 4 minutes late leaving Chelmsford and 1Y36 1832 Liverpool Street to Ipswich 14 minutes late on the line ahead very much in the way.

9P92 is meant to pass 1A94 at Witham and will but 1Y36 is an immovable obstacle.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't understand the final part - surely the stops detract from the 90 mins? Or would it be able to keep time with the newer stock (e.g. add a Diss call perhaps?)

Perhaps they mean not running the limited stop services?

 

[eastdyke]

The Class 90 Electric Loco Group has updated their understanding of the Norwich-Liverpool Street 'Class 90' diagrams.
The update from yesterday indicates a few uncertainties, some on here will know the missing details.
http://www.class90electriclocogroup.co.uk/Greater Anglia Weekday diagrams MAY 2019 v,2.pdf
I am sure that the new 'temporary' (pending units) diagram has already been posted on the forum but I repeat it here:

NEW FAST LOCO HAULED DIAGRAM UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE:
5P91 07:12 NC-NRW
9P91 09:00 NRW-LST
9P90 11:00 LST-NRW
5P90 13:10 NRW-NC (ECS/STABLED)
5P93 16:07 NC-NRW (ECS/STABLED)
9P93 17:00 NRW-LST
9P92 19:00 LST-NRW
5P92 20:xx NRW-NC

 

[Whistler40145]

What is the contingency - a Class 90 pulling a shortened rake of 5 or 6 mk 3s? Or better still top and tail 90s?

If you used top n tail 90s, one could only be under power with the other being dead in tow

 

[hexagon789]

If you used top n tail 90s, one could only be under power with the other being dead in tow

Other than power supply constraints can't TDM handle two locos powering?

Not that there's any point really.

 

[Whistler40145]

Other than power supply constraints can't TDM handle two locos powering?

Not that there's any point really.

I'm not sure, I think the power supply couldn't cope with a loco on each end drawing power and the location of Neutral Sections is a major problem, especially if a loco gets stuck in the dead section

 

[hexagon789]

I'm not sure, I think the power supply couldn't cope with a loco on each end drawing power and the location of Neutral Sections is a major problem, especially if a loco gets stuck in the dead section

I suppose, though it is a moot point anyway really.

 

[Railperf]

Hopes of Norwich in 90 on the 1900 seemingly in the bin just before Chelmsford.

1A94 1848 Liverpool Street to Harwich International 4 minutes late leaving Chelmsford and 1Y36 1832 Liverpool Street to Ipswich 14 minutes late on the line ahead very much in the way.

9P92 is meant to pass 1A94 at Witham and will but 1Y36 is an immovable obstacle.

1Y36 went into P1 at Colchester..now they can get moving. Trying to path an express service in evening rush hour is like trying to get. Thread through the eye of a needle - and quite often something does go wrong.

 

[eastdyke]

1Y36 went into P1 at Colchester..now they can get moving. Trying to path an express service in evening rush hour is like trying to get. Thread through the eye of a needle - and quite often something does go wrong.

9P92 left Ipswich around 4L, and will be on the heels of IP56 after Diss which itself left Stowmarket around 7L

 

[Railperf]

Interesting that after just one return run. Richard Clinnick from Rail magazine tweeted that they are considering re-timing the train after in arrived 2 or 3 mins early at Ipswich
This evening has been a reality check for them. It doesn't surprise me. I have commuted up and down this line enough.

 

[hexagon789]

9P92 left Ipswich around 4L, and will be on the heels of IP56 after Diss which itself left Stowmarket around 7L

Doesn't this prove that 'Norwich in 90', while an admirable enough ideal is simply unworkable with the high frequency of trains at the London-end?

Not a lot of leeway if other things are running late.

 

[Railperf]

As i said before..it will be a challenge to deliver this reliably day after day. The proverbial will be hitting the fan tonight.
Would it have helped if they had run this as ECS for a week or two first to work out the possible challenges?