London to Manchester via Wilmslow services (HS2)

[VT 390]

What is likely to be the WCML service pattern to Manchester after HS2 has been built?
The thing I am most interested in is once/if HS2 is built Is likely that Wilmslow will retain it's direct London services as it will be quicker to change at Crewe and Stockport will likely retain at least 1 service via Stoke-on-Trent. I can't imagine there being many passengers, especially off-peak, travelling from Wilmslow to London although I have not travelled on this service so may be wrong.

 

[Chester1]

What is likely to be the WCML service pattern to Manchester after HS2 has been built?
The thing I am most interested in is once/if HS2 is built Is likely that Wilmslow will retain it's direct London services as it will be quicker to change at Crewe and Stockport will likely retain at least 1 service via Stoke-on-Trent. I can't imagine there being many passengers, especially off-peak, travelling from Wilmslow to London although I have not travelled on this service so may be wrong.

Are you talking about the completion of phase 1, 2a or 2b? After phase 1 not much will change, after phase 2a one of the Stoke services should be diverted to take advantage of faster journey times via Crewe. After final completion Wilmslow may not have any services to London. There will be huge demand to replace the London services with local and regional services.

 

[VT 390]

Are you talking about the completion of phase 1, 2a or 2b? After phase 1 not much will change, after phase 2a one of the Stoke services should be diverted to take advantage of faster journey times via Crewe. After final completion Wilmslow may not have any services to London. There will be huge demand to replace the London services with local and regional services.

I was talking about once the full phase 2 is completed.
I did expect the London service from Wilmslow to be replaced by something but was not sure whether it is planned to have a slower London service or loose its London services altogether and be replaced by something else.

 

[Chester1]

I was talking about once the full phase 2 is completed.
I did expect the London service from Wilmslow to be replaced by something but was not sure whether it is planned to have a slower London service or loose its London services altogether and be replaced by something else.

There isn't a plan yet so it is possible. Paths into Piccadilly will be at a huge premium by then. Only 6 out of 13tph through Stockport are run by Northern and that will need to grow. Stoke and Macclesfield should have a HS2 classic compatible service using the HS2-WCML junction near Lichfield but it is far from guaranteed. Running a Manchester-Birmingham service via Crewe would be a possible replacement to the existing VT service. There will need to be big recasts after each stage.

 

[MarkyT]

There isn't a plan yet so it is possible. Paths into Piccadilly will be at a huge premium by then. Only 6 out of 13tph through Stockport are run by Northern and that will need to grow. Stoke and Macclesfield should have a HS2 classic compatible service using the HS2-WCML junction near Lichfield but it is far from guaranteed. Running a Manchester-Birmingham service via Crewe would be a possible replacement to the existing VT service. There will need to be big recasts after each stage.

I think the Stoke and Macclesfield train is a very good bet, likely to be fairly lucrative as it would also include a stop at Stafford. I suspect to make best use of trunk capacity it might (eventually) have to stop at Birmingham Interchange as well to split from another half train and thus avoid platform lengthening costs at the classic stations. As long as the north junction back onto HS2 at Crewe is built, your second suggestion should certainly be possible. I would also extend those Birmingham - Manchester trains over the Pennines via NPR to Leeds and Newcastle, rather than run a separate service via the East Midlands. Toton would still be linked to those North Eastern destination via stops on London trains and the paths saved on the Eastern leg could be used instead by Birmingham-Sheffield trains.

 

[Peter Kelford]

What is likely to be the WCML service pattern to Manchester after HS2 has been built?
The thing I am most interested in is once/if HS2 is built Is likely that Wilmslow will retain it's direct London services as it will be quicker to change at Crewe and Stockport will likely retain at least 1 service via Stoke-on-Trent. I can't imagine there being many passengers, especially off-peak, travelling from Wilmslow to London although I have not travelled on this service so may be wrong.

My own opinions are laid bare elsewhere.

But:

1tph Glasgow via
0.5tph Edinburgh
4tpd Holyhead
1tph Liverpool

In total on the fast lines up to 7tph or 1 train/8 minutes

 

[Puffing Devil]

After final completion Wilmslow may not have any services to London. There will be huge demand to replace the London services with local and regional services.

I struggle to see this huge demand. Sure, a 30 minute rather than an hourly service from my local station would be welcome, but a waste of money. I don't see any increased local demand on the Crewe-Manchester, line other than very peak services.

 

[Chester1]

I struggle to see this huge demand. Sure, a 30 minute rather than an hourly service from my local station would be welcome, but a waste of money. I don't see any increased local demand on the Crewe-Manchester, line other than very peak services.

The demand is between Stockport and Piccadilly not specifically Manchester-Crewe. Out of 13tph there are 7tph long distance and 6tph Northern, which is inadequate to serve Hazel Grove/Buxton, the line to Stoke, Crewe and the Mid Cheshire Line.

 

[MarkyT]

Perhaps Wilmslow might be a useful place to lose a half train, split from something else at Crewe, maybe a Wigan - Preston that could be extended alternately to Blackpool and Lancaster. The Wilmslow portion could go on to Manchester Airport (existing station) to turn round, avoiding the Piccadilly approaches. The airport platforms look capable of taking a 200m unit.

 

[VT 390]

Perhaps Wilmslow might be a useful place to lose a half train, split from something else at Crewe, maybe a Wigan - Preston that could be extended alternately to Blackpool and Lancaster. The Wilmslow portion could go on to Manchester Airport (existing station) to turn round, avoiding the Piccadilly approaches. The airport platforms look capable of taking a 200m unit.

Would there be the platform capacity at Manchester Airport for this to work?

 

[MarkyT]

Would there be the platform capacity at Manchester Airport for this to work?

Probably not today, but with Transpennine express services from the North East replaced by NPR trains running to Liverpool via the other Airport station, there might be room for them in the future.

 

[6Gman]

Surely most existing Wilmslow passengers would simply switch to the new Airport station just down the road ?

 

[Chester1]

Surely most existing Wilmslow passengers would simply switch to the new Airport station just down the road ?

The new station will be on the other side of the M56 to the airport therefore several miles from Wilmslow. TfGM is keen on trialing Airport-Wilmslow tram trains which would likely extend to the HS2 station by 2033. This would might be slower than going on a local train to Crewe and changing there.

 

[Ianno87]

The new station will be on the other side of the M56 to the airport therefore several miles from Wilmslow. TfGM is keen on trialing Airport-Wilmslow tram trains which would likely extend to the HS2 station by 2033. This would might be slower than going on a local train to Crewe and changing there.

But quite a lot of Wilmslow passengers will be travelling several miles already. Doing that somewhere else won't make much difference.