Erratic intervals on London Euston -Watford Junction LO service

[Skimpot flyer]

Checking the departure times for the London Overground service I use between London and Stonebridge Park, I’m surprised to see the new timetable still has 3 trains per hour, but NOT at 20 minute intervals.
From Euston, they’ve changed from xx17 xx37 and xx57 to a strange xx15 xx28 and xx45, leaving a 30-minute gap every hour in a 3-trains-per-hour service. This 30-min gap recurs in the London direction, too. Anyone know why this is?

Interestingly, the National Rail Enquiries app suggests using the xx04 Euston - Tring service to Wembley Central, passing to the west of Stonebridge Park, and using the tube to come back in the opposite direction, to give 4 trains per hour. I’ve done this when using Oyster, but had assumed a paper ticket was not valid that way?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I understand the intention is that the service will be upgraded to 4 trains per hour, and I assume the paths have been adjusted to fit that (and have to be adjusted around other services out of Euston). However the new rolling stock isn't ready yet so I guess there is a diagram "missing" which would I guess be xx58 out of Euston.

Edit: It's actually xx14/xx27/xx44/xx57. If you look on RTT the xx57 is shown as "unadvertised passenger service" - is this perhaps a test run?

e.g: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...BP/2019/05/30/1635?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Notably platforms 9 and 10 seem to be used.

 

[30907]

Edit: It's actually xx14/xx27/xx44/xx57. If you look on RTT the xx57 is shown as "unadvertised passenger service" - is this perhaps a test run?

e.g: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...BP/2019/05/30/1635?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Notably platforms 9 and 10 seem to be used.

Unadvertised means just that. It's not in the timetable but if you are there atvthe right time you can use it.
There might be some trivial reason why LOL might think they might not have the stock available for the enhanced service. Are Goblins causing trouble?

 

[Ianno87]

I understand the intention is that the service will be upgraded to 4 trains per hour, and I assume the paths have been adjusted to fit that (and have to be adjusted around other services out of Euston). However the new rolling stock isn't ready yet so I guess there is a diagram "missing" which would I guess be xx58 out of Euston.

Edit: It's actually xx14/xx27/xx44/xx57. If you look on RTT the xx57 is shown as "unadvertised passenger service" - is this perhaps a test run?

e.g: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...BP/2019/05/30/1635?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Notably platforms 9 and 10 seem to be used.

It will be a 'QJ' path - reserved in the timetable ready to be introduced. I.e. makes sure the space is kept at Euston once it loses platforms (the TT change being the opportunity to build it in)

A bit like the 2tph Brighton-Cambridge Thameslink service.

 

[43096]

I understand the intention is that the service will be upgraded to 4 trains per hour, and I assume the paths have been adjusted to fit that (and have to be adjusted around other services out of Euston). However the new rolling stock isn't ready yet so I guess there is a diagram "missing" which would I guess be xx58 out of Euston.

Edit: It's actually xx14/xx27/xx44/xx57. If you look on RTT the xx57 is shown as "unadvertised passenger service" - is this perhaps a test run?

e.g: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...BP/2019/05/30/1635?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Notably platforms 9 and 10 seem to be used.

The fourth path is assigned for use as a training path for the Aventras. You couldn’t really make an “improvement” much worse, could you?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fourth path is assigned for use as a training path for the Aventras. You couldn’t really make an “improvement” much worse, could you?

There probably isn't any other way they could have done it, bar allocating a path north of Harrow only where there should be more capacity?

 

[43096]

There probably isn't any other way they could have done it, bar allocating a path north of Harrow only where there should be more capacity?

Given that Aventra training should have taken place months ago, what was the plan back then? Better to have stuck with that and the 20min frequency on the DC than promise something that can’t be delivered.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that Aventra training should have taken place months ago, what was the plan back then? Better to have stuck with that and the 20min frequency on the DC than promise something that can’t be delivered.

The Euston timetable was being recast (for LNR and for the loss of P17 and 18) in May - it would have been a case of move to a 4tph based pattern then or not until January.

 

[Hophead]

This is not unlike the situation on the Richmond & Clapham Junction branches of the North London Line; each every 15 minutes off-peak; 4 trains per hour in the peak, at 12-minute intervals. Except for the 24 minute gap every hour.

Those missing Aventras are a problem on more than just Barking - Gospel Oak.

 

[evergreenadam]

24 minute gaps at peak times are shocking. Those services must be very packed. Together with frequency reduction to half hourly on the GOBLIN the reputation of the Overground as a turn up and go service must be taking a real hit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

24 minute gaps at peak times are shocking. Those services must be very packed. Together with frequency reduction to half hourly on the GOBLIN the reputation of the Overground as a turn up and go service must be taking a real hit.

It's a 28 minute gap, not that that makes it any better! But every 20 minutes is not "turn up and go" in my book anyway, for that you need 6tph or better or you end up doing a lot of standing around.

It is Bombardier's fault for failing to deliver working Aventras on time.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It is Bombardier's fault for failing to deliver working Aventras on time.

I suppose the question also arises, whether TfL were complacent in predicating all plans on the on-time arrival of the Aventras, given the fact that almost every new class of train, in recent years, has had teething issues upon introduction. Some, of course, more than others!

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the missing train, and assuming if the track layout did allow this to happen, could an Euston - Queens Park short working run so as not to have an uneven frequency? Passengers can change to the Bakerloo for stations to Harrow & Wealdstone.

On a side note, for a turn up and go frequency, I believe the minimum baseline is every 15 minutes or greater along a common section of route. For example, south of the mighty Thames, the Bexley and Sidcup Loop is every 15 minutes, and the ex North Kent Railway via Greenwich is every 10 minutes as far as Slade Green (or was until Thameslink 2000 [sic] mucked it up).

 

[E6007]

I suppose the question also arises, whether TfL were complacent in predicating all plans on the on-time arrival of the Aventras, given the fact that almost every new class of train, in recent years, has had teething issues upon introduction. Some, of course, more than others!

This case though is a bit extreme!

 

[Kite159]

Regarding the missing train, and assuming if the track layout did allow this to happen, could an Euston - Queens Park short working run so as not to have an uneven frequency? Passengers can change to the Bakerloo for stations to Harrow & Wealdstone.

On a side note, for a turn up and go frequency, I believe the minimum baseline is every 15 minutes or greater along a common section of route. For example, south of the mighty Thames, the Bexley and Sidcup Loop is every 15 minutes, and the ex North Kent Railway via Greenwich is every 10 minutes as far as Slade Green (or was until Thameslink 2000 [sic] mucked it up).

They could always use the bay platform at Willesden Junction to turn 378s back

 

[cle]

Or add a stop at Queens Park on a semi fast service around the same time?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Or add a stop at Queens Park on a semi fast service around the same time?

Are the platforms on the main line at Queens Park still operational, and connected to those on the DC lines?

 

[Kite159]

Are the platforms on the main line at Queens Park still operational, and connected to those on the DC lines?

I presume they are still connected via the locked gate in the concourse area, and it wasn't that long ago they stopped being used by that token weekly LM service?

 

[cle]

They redid the stairs (unpainted) and put in monitors a few years back. Unsure of the surfacing - it was a little dodgy even in its 90s heyday - but it’s only good for 8 cars.