What if Preston bus is sold and goes bust?

[johnluke]

Councils are allowed to hold all the shares as johnluke says. Lothian operate this way. I don't think it's any co-incidence that (arguably, certainly IMO) the country's best operator is publicly owned...

lothian sets an example of the modern day municipal,proffits go to the city council to fund other services operated by the council,,rather than a private company making money to fund new overseas projects and new companies.....warington borough transport is simmilar to lothian,,

 

[LMS6202]

All this confuses me. When de-regulation came in we were told it was to increase competition yet we see whole areas/cities bus service run by one firm. I.E. All Gateshead is Northern except for Metrocentre. I think that the franchise idea as per London is a far better deal. One thing that does annoy me about de-regulation is that any operator can number any service it likes in any series. This results in duplication of numbers for services going to completely different places with the same number running along the same street to different destinations. Newcastle for instance has 4 number 1's two number 45's and various other duplications. Why can't each operator have it's own number series and stick to it? Say busways 1-99, northern 101-199, arriva 201-299 etc. Much easier for visitors and residents to understand.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Stagecoach was instructed to sell Preston Bus by Competition Commission, to a company which is capable of competing with it!, which they are apealling against!!

Has we all already know Nat Ex is in serious financial difficults, with Arriva, First, and Go-Ahead all saying that they are NOT interested in Preston Bus.

This then leaves companies like Shearings, who did once in the 1980's, operate buses in the Bolton area, lately becoming Timeline, before being sold to First in the 1990's.

When you consider the average age of the Preston Bus fleet, this will put-off potential buyers, after all who wants to operate A & E reg'd Olympians, F & G reg'd Lynxs or Metroriders. All of which were withdrawn by Stagecoach and would have to be reinstated when Preston Bus is finally sold.

Are the local authority allowed to take Preston Bus on?

 

[Tom B]

lothian sets an example of the modern day municipal,proffits go to the city council to fund other services operated by the council,,rather than a private company making money to fund new overseas projects and new companies.....warington borough transport is simmilar to lothian,,

The only problem these days is that Lothian are being continually screwed over by the politician's tramset...

As to dereg it's a load of rubbish. All that has happened now is the monopoly public companies have been replaced by monopoly private companies - who operate a shoddy service (generally with high fares, poor reliability, sheds of vehicles and nobody to hold them to account).

 

[starrymarkb]

Are the local authority allowed to take Preston Bus on?

They'd already offloaded it to the management, who then sold to Stagecoach

 

[johnluke]

having posted an earlier one about a councillor telling me about employees with council backing have a look at this click
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Employees-aim-to-grab-company.6146849.jp
copy and paste

 

[starrymarkb]

it was the employees who sold it to stagecoach to begin with!

 

[johnluke]

it was a choice of either stagecoach run them out of town or buy them,,i spoke to the md of preston bus peter bell and he told me they could not carry on in light of the stagecoach war against them,preston bus had a loyal sopport but many chose the cheap fares espescially on route 9 ,,,,,,,,16,other routes kept so many customers ,he told me also they didnt ask for money from the council to subsidise loss making routes,they did it from routes that they made money from,thats why certain routes were axed during the bus war,,,,,,thanks to stagecoach

 

[robertclark125]

Supposing Stagecoach has to sell Preston Bus, what about the debts PB accrued, such as the finance for the buses that Stagecoach paid off. If PB was to be returned to pre takeover state, then by rights, PB new owners would owe Stagecoach that mioney, even after buying the firm.

 

[robertclark125]

http://www.catribunal.org.uk/files/1145_Stagecoach_Transcript_10.03.10.pdf

that's only part 2. There is part one.

One thought. If the CAT rules Stagecoach can keep Preston Bus, do you think they will sell it?

 

[KendalKing]

The following noted on the VOSA website:-

PC0001777/5 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Rose Bud / New hall Lane and Archbishop Temple High School given service number 234 effective from 07-Jun-2010.

PC0001777/7 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bus Station and Gamull Lane given service number 10/11/111 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Route, Start & Finish Point, Stopping Places and Timetable.

PC0001777/8 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Bus Station and Fulwood Row given service number 6/7 effective from 07-Jun-2010.

PC0001777/11 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bus Station and Savick Estate, Savick Way given service number 29/30/31 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0001777/12 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bus Station and Tanterton given service number 33/182/35 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/13 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bus Station and Tanterton given service number 136/32/45 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/16 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Sherwood Asda Store given service number 23/22 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0001777/18 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bus Station and Holme Slack Lily Grove given service number 14/114 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/25 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Lightfoot Lane and Our Lady's High School given service number 549/236/551 effective from 07-Jun-2010.

PC0001777/26 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Preston Bus Station given service number 19A/119/19 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/35 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Hoghton Old Oak and Chorley St Micheals given service number 796 effective from 07-Jun-2010.

PC0001777/42 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Portway Park & Ride Site and Lune Street given service number 1 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/43 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Walton-Le-Dale and Preston given service number 2 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/60 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Preston Bus Station given service number 88A/88C/89 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/86 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Lea, Aldfield Avenue given service number 87 effective from 07-Jun-2010.

PC0001777/98 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Preston Bus Station given service number 8 effective from 07-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

 

[robertclark125]

If the company is sold to its employees, what if it then makes service cuts? How would passenger reaction be then?

 

[robertclark125]

Arriva were keen to buy PB at one time. If it's sold, and the employees buy it, how vulnerable will it be to attack from another operator? Moreso, what if this new competitor to PB is another big group, such as Arriva? The other point I'd make is, if Arriva, for example, set up a new operation in Preston, and forced PB out of business, then sold their operations, or transfered them to stagecoach, where does everyone stand then, and what about the OFT?

 

[mbonwick]

OFT can't stop, or do anytihng about, Arriva moving in on Preston.

Of course, if Arriva buy PB then sell back to Stagecoach, the OFT/CC get involved again and we go back to square 1.

For the divestiture, firm bids are required by 4th June. The appeal decision is expected "soon"

 

[robertclark125]

I wasn't meaning Arriva buy PB. I was meaning Arriva sets up a rival oepration, which puts PB out of business, then Arriva sells its rival operation to Stagecoach.

 

[mbonwick]

Oh, sorry. My misunderstanding.

Same net effect though, OFT/CC likely to get involved - firstly over Arriva's tactics in running PB out of business, then again for Competition rules with the sale to Stagecoach.

 

[robertclark125]

At the same time, isn't Arriva providing competition with Preston Bus?

 

[johnluke]

in my opinion arriva wont come to preston as they are distant from their other operations,its not cost effective for them, also from what ive seen from before arriva dont set up new operations,if anything the opposite they did leave warrington after they took northwestern

 

[KendalKing]

The same thing happen at Heysham Travel, when Arriva took-over MTL Holdings.
Arriva sold Heysham Travel, to Stagecoach because it was to distant from its main operation in Liverpool.

 

[mbonwick]

The appeal judgement will be notified at 2PM on Friday.

 

[KendalKing]

I look forward to reading it.

 

[KendalKing]

Noted on the VOSA website:-

PC0001777/42 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Portway Park & Ride Site and Lune Street given service number 1 effective from 23-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/43 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Walton-Le-Dale and Preston given service number 2 effective from 23-Jun-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/100 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Nog Tow Tanterton
Finish Point: Archbishop Temple School
Via: Cottam Tanterton
Service Number: 236
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 23-JUN-2010
Other Details: School Days Only

PC0001777/101 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston (New Hall Lane Rosebud)
Finish Point: Archbishop Temple School
Via: Farringdon park, Blackpool Road
Service Number: 234
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 23-JUN-2010
Other Details: School Days Only

 

[robertclark125]

Several other contracts have recently been won by Stagecoach North West. I'm getting this feeling Stagecoach will keep PB.

 

[johnluke]

up to press its not up to stagecoach, at the moment as to whether they keep preston bus, a decision is due from the submissions from the tribunal next week,,but having looked at the situation lately stagecoach seem to be going ahead with the sale anyway,, maybe im wrong, but they have been applying the preston bus livery and name back to the vehicles of late, the new company headed by john bannister( former wbt md) preston transport seem keen to enter the deal to take over, recently on the preston bus website on the vacancies page ,,minibus drivers wanted ,it only appeared for a week then dissapeared, so they are now fully staffed,,,,, if stagecoach do keep the company,of which i hope not,, then it will be d day for many drivers and staff as the 2 year no redundancies expires this coming xmas,,,

 

[mbonwick]

I think the 2 years no redundancy will be renegotiated as Stagecoach haven't exactly had much choice since they bought PB.

Stagecoach were going through the motions of selling PB as it's cheaper than applying for "interim relief" and as part of this process all vehicles must be repainted.

Whether it is sold in the end remains to be seen - I've heard from a friend who the confirmed bidders are, but I can't say on a public forum.

 

[johnluke]

preston transport is one of the bidders,go ahead also,, i have a gut feeling that trampower could be another ,,but thats just a wild thought ,, my email if you like to give me your opinion of who other bidders could be,, jworldwide2002@yahoo.co.uk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
centrebus a front runner too

 

[KendalKing]

Noted on the VOSA website:-

PC0001777/11 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Preston Bus Station given service number 31 effective from 06-Sep-2010. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0001777/26 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Preston Bus Station given service number 19A/119/19 effective from 06-Sep-2010. To amend Timetable.

PC0001777/60 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Preston Bus Station given service number 88A/88C/89 effective from 09-Jul-2010. To amend Route.

PC0001777/99 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Variation Accepted: Operating between Preston Bus Station and Preston Bus Station given service number 16 effective from 06-Sep-2010. To amend Timetable.

 

[johnluke]

http://www.stagecoachgroup.com/scg/ir/newsevents/rns/rnsitem?id=3579168

copy and paste decision

 

[ivanhoe]

This thread overall highlights the role of The CC in the UK bus industry and how much harm it does to both passengers and operators. The biggest losers are passengers who have been denied investment in newer Buses and the City of Preston itself. I have no issues with Stagecoach being the dominant operator in Preston or any other town.( providing it does not abuse it's monopoly)

I suspect that people at bus stops don't care either! They all want the same; clean buses, safe buses, decent timetable, friendly and helpful drivers and continuity. Prestonbus( as a truelly going concern) & Ribble are history. Lets look to the future

 

[robertclark125]

Will the new owners of PB, depending who they are, invest in new buses? The question is, how many buses will be sold, and if the new owners are the employees, aren't we back to square one?

 

[Lampshade]

They all want the same; clean buses, safe buses, decent timetable, friendly and helpful drivers and continuity.

It's a good job Stagecoach are slinging their hook then