East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

[yorksrob]

Really? They haven't got the 'basics' as right as VT, GWR, GR etc
Their mainline operation is a bit like shabby version of XC, but the regional stuff is actually alright.
They're almost the opposite of GWR, which is like an intercity operator trying to run regional trains (badly)
Whereas EMT is a bit like a regional operator trying to run an Intercity service, it's a very poor experience compared to the other IC TOCs, often with more expensive fares as well!
I'm hoping that Abellio can bring the IC side up to scratch, the Norwich services on GA seem a lot better than EMT

Au contraire.

Decent capacity, decent rolling stock, decent fares. That's the key. Not gimicky stuff for expensive fares.

 

[cactustwirly]

Au contraire.

Decent capacity, decent rolling stock, decent fares. That's the key. Not gimicky stuff for expensive fares.

EMT haven't really done that, shabby tatty stock, and their fares aren't exactly the cheapest

 

[bramling]

Au contraire.

Decent capacity, decent rolling stock, decent fares. That's the key. Not gimicky stuff for expensive fares.

Hmm. Being another operator who run Intercity services with 4 and 5 car trains, I’d perhaps take issue with the decent capacity bit. Okay, to be fair it’s hard to see what trains they could have taken on to uplift capacity.

Their HSTs are positively retro, though some may of course find this a positive thing!

 

[yorksrob]

EMT haven't really done that, shabby tatty stock, and their fares aren't exactly the cheapest

They're cheaper than the alternative on my route.

And the stock did get a good facelift towards the start of the franchise.

 

[yorksrob]

Hmm. Being another operator who run Intercity services with 4 and 5 car trains, I’d perhaps take issue with the decent capacity bit. Okay, to be fair it’s hard to see what trains they could have taken on to uplift capacity.

Their HSTs are positively retro, though some may of course find this a positive thing!

Well, I do avoid the 4 - 5 car trains, so I avoid the poor capacity.

 

[thenorthern]

East Midlands Trains stock is quite old, they have been refurbished although much of the stock is lacking many things that other similar operators have such as accessible toilets, information screens, automated announcements, WiFi on local trains and power sockets (USB or 240v).

Fares are not too bad compared to other operators, although some can be expensive.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[Kneedown]

You said that it was the old National Express uniform. It most definitely wasn't anything NatX.
I worked for EMT from day 1, having been TUPEd in from CT, and I know very well what the uniform was. I was issued enough of it!

I think they must have changed suppliers at some point. The initial issue was ok and didn't fit too badly. The last few pairs of trousers i've received however, snag threads within a week, and fit wise would not look out of place at a Northern Soul night!

 

[DanDaDriver]

I think they must have changed suppliers at some point. The initial issue was ok and didn't fit too badly. The last few pairs of trousers i've received however, snag threads within a week, and fit wise would not look out of place at a Northern Soul night!

I quite like my company issued MC Hammer parachute pants.

 

[LowLevel]

The quality is crap. I've had numerous jackets delivered with pockets that you can put your hand straight through from day one and my first set of uniform was entirely branded South West Trains with some Island Line waistcoats floating about. This was many years before SWT ceased.

Don't even talk to me about the dark blue sweat effect the shirts have when you're working on a class 158 with failed air conditioning in a heatwave.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Hooray for sweat patches under the arms. You'll miss them when they've gone!

 

[Class 170101]

The 170s are an awkward fleet! The seats feel really low down which doesn't help and the legroom is unexpectedly small for such a modern fleet. And to burn the candle from both ends, the seats aren't of sufficient height to rest your head if you are of a taller stature.

I think XC have an extra row / couple of rows of seats compared to the Anglia ones which seem fine but the XC ones are tighter by comparision.

 

[Japan0913]

Why not move forward?

 

[Jozhua]

Any estimates when we might be getting more information on the trains?

Must have been about a month since the franchise was announced!

 

[ainsworth74]

Any estimates when we might be getting more information on the trains?

Must have been about a month since the franchise was announced!

When the standstill period ends and Abellio and the DfT finalise the contract. Of course the standstill is now seemingly open ended so it's also an open question as to whether the DfT and Abellio ever will finalise the deal...

 

[Japan0913]

When the standstill period ends and Abellio and the DfT finalise the contract. Of course the standstill is now seemingly open ended so it's also an open question as to whether the DfT and Abellio ever will finalise the deal...

In Japan, sure, there is an interim report to shareholders.
Chaos, the Government cannot make a decision?

 

[ainsworth74]

In Japan, sure, there is an interim report to shareholders.
Chaos, the Government cannot make a decision?

The Government could make the decision if they so wished right now. The standstill period after an award announcement is not mandatory. But if there is a successful legal challenge of the award by one of the other bidders afterwards that makes things both much more complicated and potentially much more expensive.

 

[Japan0913]

The Government could make the decision if they so wished right now. The standstill period after an award announcement is not mandatory. But if there is a successful legal challenge of the award by one of the other bidders afterwards that makes things both much more complicated and potentially much more expensive.

However, I think that there are some things that can be preceded by new car purchase and infrastructure improvement.
For example,As of class 465, stretched forward.
New car introduction is not in time.
Modernization of infrastructure is delayed.
Haven't you?

 

[Jozhua]

Meanwhile the PRM 2020 deadline of the governments own creation creeps ever closer

*chants*Derogation, derogation, derogation!*chants*

 

[LowLevel]

Meanwhile the PRM 2020 deadline of the governments own creation creeps ever closer

*chants*Derogation, derogation, derogation!*chants*

I think you'll find regardless of what happens things will be changing with the fleet etc. EMT are already recruiting managers responsible for making it happen for the new franchise.

 

[talltim]

I'm up for criticism of any company but... the fact that the EMT uniform is the same as the old MM uniform (but in different colours) seems a fairly thin criticism to make.

One of the things that people grumble about when a new TOC comes along is that money is being spent on things like signage/ timetables/ staff uniforms are being replaced - I could understand the complaint if EMT staff in 2019 were still forced to wear the same pair of trousers they were allocated under National Express in the 1990s though!

I can remember that day early in in the franchise when all staff had to work in their pants cos their uniforms had been sent of for repainting...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Someone asked me the other day if they expect the Crewe to Derby services to be extended to Manchester Airport again given that they are going to be extended to Nottingham again. I can't see that happening in the short term given a lack of spare capacity between Crewe and Manchester Airport.

I don't see the problem with Crewe-Manchester Airport capacity.
TPE were offered the route in the ITT by extending one of their Airport terminators to Crewe but declined.
The previous Central Trains version was a very poor performer though, and a single car 153 was not very appealing either.

 

[CdBrux]

I don't see the problem with Crewe-Manchester Airport capacity.
TPE were offered the route in the ITT by extending one of their Airport terminators to Crewe but declined.

Isn't there more likely to be a problem with platform capacity at the airport?

 

[thenorthern]

Isn't there more likely to be a problem with platform capacity at the airport?

I don't see the problem with Crewe-Manchester Airport capacity.
TPE were offered the route in the ITT by extending one of their Airport terminators to Crewe but declined.
The previous Central Trains version was a very poor performer though, and a single car 153 was not very appealing either.

When the Central Trains services to Manchester Airport were withdrawn in 2003 there were only 2 platforms at the airport now of course there is 4 however there are much more trains using Manchester Airport now than in 2003.

There were other issues as well however with the extension to Manchester Airport such as the only practical platform to use at Crewe was Platform 1 which had to be used by both Central Trains in both directions and the terminating First North Western service from Manchester (Platforms 2,3 and 4 were rarely used as the Euston - Crewe LM service didn't exist and CT only terminated at Crewe on Sundays). Also given that the Central Trains services normally came from Nottingham/Skegness/Lincoln Central or Cleethorpes delays were common by the time the trains reached Crewe. Back in 2002 I know Central Trains trialed extending the Nottingham - Crewe services to Liverpool Lime Street on Sundays which may be an option in the future.

 

[Killingworth]

The Times today "Chris Grayling accused of misleading MPs over Stagecoach rail ban" See;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...3?shareToken=24b5b53fbbac798c2ec223b64bbc9569

Chris Grayling has been accused of misleading parliament over disqualifying Stagecoach from bidding for train franchises.

Statements made by the transport secretary in the Commons appear to be at odds with his own department’s documentation.

The transport secretary has been called on to return to the House by Labour’s shadow rail minister to clarify a deepening controversy in which train operating companies are being told to accept open-ended pension liabilities.

Further questions have also been raised over the sharp fall in Stagecoach’s share price in the nine days between Mr Grayling making his decision to disqualify the company and the announcement of the news.

The row is heaping pressure on the transport secretary after £83 million was wasted on cross-Channel ferry capacity in no-deal Brexit planning.

Last month Stagecoach was thrown off the bidding to run three franchises: East Midlands Trains, South Eastern and the West Coast Partnership, which combines services on the west coast mainline and HS2 between London and Birmingham. Stagecoach operates buses and trains and has £3.2 billion of annual revenues. It employs more than 30,000 staff and is the joint operator of Virgin Trains with Sir Richard Branson.

The decision prompted a furious row between the company and the Department for Transport, which accused the train operator of disqualifying itself. Stagecoach has threatened to take the transport secretary to judicial review.

The East Midlands franchise was awarded to Abellio, the British arm of the Dutch state railway, as it emerged that a third bidder, Arriva, had also disqualified itself by declining to take on pension liabilities.

Documentation, seen by The Times, from a senior DfT official signed with the authority of Mr Grayling states: “All bids contained some non-compliances.”

That appears to contradict Mr Grayling’s statements in an exchange with Rachael Maskell, the shadow rail minister, in the House. Ms Maskell asked why Mr Grayling had appointed Abellio to the East Midlands contract when it, like Stagecoach and Arriva, had been non-compliant to the franchise terms.

“It is not the case that all three bidders were non-compliant,” Mr Grayling replied. When pressed, he asserted: “The honourable lady’s question is based on a totally false premise. She is incorrectly making assertions about non-compliant bids which are simply inaccurate.”

Ms Maskell said last night: “Chris Grayling has once again not been straight with parliament. Legal disclosures from his own department issued under his authority show that, in fact, all bids contained non-compliances. This cavalier approach to the procurement process is wasting millions of pounds of public money. The transport secretary must urgently come to the House of Commons and correct the parliamentary record.”

Ms Maskell believes that Mr Grayling may also be guilty of withholding market sensitive information from the stock exchange. Mr Grayling made his decision to disqualify Stagecoach on April 1. News of that disqualification did not come out until April 10. In the week before the news was announced, Stagecoach shares fell 16 per cent. The stock plunged further afterwards, with a total fall of nearly 30 per cent from 160p to 115p over three weeks.

 

[hwl]

The Times today "Chris Grayling accused of misleading MPs over Stagecoach rail ban" See;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...3?shareToken=24b5b53fbbac798c2ec223b64bbc9569

This is probably going to get very messy.

The last paragraph implies insider trading occurred from the Wednesday 3rd onwards (the day the price fall started) 2 days after Grayling made the Stagecoach decision. About half the fall was recovered when the standstill period extension was announced.

 

[700007]

That's quite the turn if true - non compliant bid from Abellio. This sounds like it is going to turn into one of the ugliest lawsuits ever recorded in the rail industry. Lessons from Eurotunnel and Virgin 2012 weren't learnt it seems.

It could pan out that Stagecoach takes DfT to court for the leaks, and both Arriva and Stagecoach taking DfT to court for allowing a non compliant bid win the franchise even though they were both barred for the same reason.

If DfT then cancels the competition, I can imagine all three parties especially Abellio wishing to reclaim the costs of the bid.

Grayling's administration at their best here...

 

[hwl]

That's quite the turn if true - non compliant bid from Abellio. This sounds like it is going to turn into one of the ugliest lawsuits ever recorded in the rail industry. Lessons from Eurotunnel and Virgin 2012 weren't learnt it seems.

It could pan out that Stagecoach takes DfT to court for the leaks, and both Arriva and Stagecoach taking DfT to court for allowing a non compliant bid win the franchise even though they were both barred for the same reason.

If DfT then cancels the competition, I can imagine all three parties especially Abellio wishing to reclaim the costs of the bid.

Grayling's administration at their best here...

All bids are usually non compliant in some way the question is how much and what.

 

[Japan0913]

Excerpt from the article of City AM.
2019年5月7日火曜日
http://www.cityam.com/277251/chris-grayling-ducks-questions-mps-over-controversial-east

・・・・・・
The current standstill period – the timeframe in which spurned bidders are given to ask questions about the government's decision – has been extended until Thursday because of the row.

Abellio said in a statement:
"As a responsible and experienced rail operator Abellio has taken great care in abiding by the rules of the franchising process during the standstill period and has not issued statements or briefing to the media.

"Once the standstill period has passed we will take steps to share in detail the plans we have to enhance the East Midlands railway over the coming years.

”However, ahead of this it is appropriate that we comment on media reports over recent days.
Abellio has been successful and unsuccessful in bids over many years. Our view is that the East Midlands competition has been conducted in a robust and fair manner, through a process run by an experienced Rail Franchise team within the Department for Transport.
The process is designed to ensure the best bid for the passengers and UK taxpayer."

It continued:
“For many decades ensuring that the Rail Pension Scheme is fully funded has been an ongoing responsibility for everyone involved in running the railway. Abellio is working constructively with the pension trustees, Rail Delivery Group, employee representatives, the Department for Transport and the Pensions Regulator to maintain the pension scheme for the long term.

“Abellio, along with many other multi-national organisations who have submitted compliant bids for current competitions, are satisfied that the protection mechanism put in place by the Department for Transport suitably balances all parties’ risk."

A DfT spokesperson said:
“Abellio submitted a compliant bid and have been awarded the East Midlands Railway franchise on the basis of clear guidance that was issued in advance of the bid process.”

Abellio will announce the details on May 9 tomorrow?

 

[Glenn1969]

Tomorrow is the 8th so maybe we will hear from them in 48 hours