Islineclear3_1
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Don't know about suitable replacements for 313s but the off-topic units are 5-car just like the 376's which are being discussed here
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Class 376 refurbs?
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Don't know about suitable replacements for 313s but the off-topic units are 5-car just like the 376's which are being discussed here
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Even if they have ASDO why would they increase 3-car services to 5-car for no good reason?
When did Southern ever run 2x455+1x456? It must have been very rare. 2x455, 1x455+2x456 and 1x455+1x456, 2x456 and 3x456 but never 2x455+1x456.
I’m not saying they would, but from a passenger point of view 707s are still better than 313s, even if there’s no toilet on board. A/C, plug sockets, improved reliability, less risk of gapping (which is very frequent) and the opportunity to sling a toilet in if they wanted to. Depends on price obviously.
Goldfish62
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Yes, and the window frames are designed to have locks easily fitted.
Fincra5
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The Coastway does need 4 Car Trains really.
It is interesting how a series of decisions have led to the Coastway being 3-car for the last 20 years - e.g. removal of buffet cars on the Sussex Coast routes, decision to order 377/3s, the availability of 313s to displace 377/3s to the Metro area.
There doesn't appear to be a reason that 4-car 377s should not be used to run the Coastway and another fleet be procured to backfill their metro work but the 377/3s would still have to have a role somewhere on the Southern network.
Did Connex specifically order the 3-car 377s against coastway work in the late 1990s or did they just find their place there alongside use on Victoria to Brighton expresses in 6-car formation doubling up at peak times. Seems a bit odd to use new stock on those services first (other than of course that they are self-contained diagrams near to the home depot that don't couple up much).
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
This is going off topic and perhaps the mods could split this to the 313 thread?
The Coastway services have historically been operated by 3-4car stock; the 2Haps were doubled up to make 4Caps and there has been a mixture of 4Cig or 3Cop or 4-car 377 or 3-car 375/377.
I can't remember now but think the Sussex 375/3s were ordered off the back of the Kent ones
Getting back to the 376's, can a suitable home be found for them?
The Coastway services have historically been operated by 3-4car stock; the 2Haps were doubled up to make 4Caps and there has been a mixture of 4Cig or 3Cop or 4-car 377 or 3-car 375/377.
I can't remember now but think the Sussex 375/3s were ordered off the back of the Kent ones
Getting back to the 376's, can a suitable home be found for them?
3 cars all transferred from Southeastern, the /3 are all ex 375s retrofitted with DOO cameras & monitors and Dellner couplers
Yes, ordered by Connex for South Central workings - they ran initially as 375s in the same fleet number sequence as the Connex South Eastern fleet - e.g. 375311-375338 but had carriage numbers that match their 377301-377328 identity and always have done.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Southeastern still have 3-car 377's...
Yes, it isn't the coast but using 376s to displace other units to the coast looks like a good way to get 376s onto the Southern metro network, refurbished as necessary.
They ran them pretty much all the time.
I don't think so - they can't run 10-car 455/456 sets because most of their lines have at least one short platform that can't take 10-car trains without SDO (definitely anything via Tulse Hill, Hackbridge, Carshalton Beeches and Sydenham; and I'm not even sure that other platforms had yet been extended). I think you mean 2 x 456 & 1 x 455? (8 car)
Nope. The reason the 456s were transferred to SWT was because the 377/6s replaced the 455s and 456s on 10-car workings.
Fincra5
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Not entirely sure you are correct as the DOO equipement and station lengths wasn't sufficient for 10 Car DOO. 377/3s were taken from the coast to metro (in exchange for 313s) to make the 10car Metro! 2x 377/3 + 1x 377/1-2-4 Because they have SDO and OnBoard DOO. The 376s have neither of these as it stands so, unless these are added they're not an ideal replacement for Metro workings. In that case new trains might be cheaper... Could always be shortened to 4 car to replace 455s.
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westcoaster
Established Member
My guess would be the red desiro cities replacing the 376's like for like.
But unsure where the 376's will end up, or maybe they will stay so everything goes 10 car on the metro routes they serve.
But unsure where the 376's will end up, or maybe they will stay so everything goes 10 car on the metro routes they serve.
Agreed. The /3 moving north also enabled the East Grinsteads services to get lengthened. (were often 4x 3car)Not entirely sure you are correct as the DOO equipement and station lengths wasn't sufficient for 10 Car DOO. 377/3s were taken from the coast to metro (in exchange for 313s) to make the 10car Metro! 2x 377/3 + 1x 377/1-2-4 Because they have SDO and OnBoard DOO. The 376s have neither of these as it stands so, unless these are added they're not an ideal replacement for Metro workings. In that case new trains might be cheaper... Could always be shortened to 4 car to replace 455s.
A quick look at Thornton Heath Station (not my video) shows the DOO issues where the platforms were extended to 10car from 8.
A 10 car 455x2+ 456 could only ever have operated one way on the Sydenham - London Bridge corridor (stopping) and the platform length constraints at LBG pre-rebuild would have made that pretty pointless.
10car on the via Sydenham Corridor were limited until the old platform 8 went by which time the 456s were long gone.
10 car happened in stages with initial 4+3+3 car 377s on limited number of LBG via Norwood Jn services with the VIC services 10 car taking place 18-30 months later with platform lengthening and the arrivals the 377/6 (& /7).
There are still a reasonable number of 8 car services on 10 car routes, but the situation improved a bit with TL taking over some southern routes in 2018.
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