Simpler fares, simple to buy your ticket

[bakerstreet]

At the weekend I wanted to buy a ticket from [insert station on a National Rail mainline] but the sole ticket office, with no NR TVM or Permit to Travel machine is run by LU.

They say - 'I can sell you the ticket you want but we're not allowed to give you the Gold Card discount.'

'I'd really rather have the discount. Can you give me some kind of Permit to Travel so I can buy on the train or en route?'

'No. But I can sell you a £4 single but you won't able to exchange it on national rail.'

I get NR train one stop. Get off. National Rail operated Ticket office shut. TVM will not accept any of my notes. No Permit to Travel machine.

Call up the Train Company's helpline. Give up when one of the first questions the operator asks is to explain what I mean by Gold Card discount.

Another National Rail station (on a different route) is fortunately 5 mins walk away. Ticket office open!

'Can I buy an Off-Peak return from a to b.'

Show the seller the previous ticket I bought - I want exactly the same. The price charged is too cheap - sounds like the seller's charging me the Off Peak day.

I say 'this is the off-peak day return. I would like the off peak return'.

The seller says, mildly annoyed: 'You mean the Saver, you should have asked for a Saver return'.

I say: 'I don't think there is any such thing as a Saver any more. It's called an off-peak return.'

The seller says: 'it's all called off-peak, but next time you must ask for a saver.'

I give up! (But I do eventually get my ticket...)

Questions:

How many incorrect tickets do you think this NR ticket office sells in a day?

Why can't tube stations which serve as the sole ticket office for main national rail services (no TVM's, no Permit to Travel machines) sell the full range of NR tickets and with discounts where applicable. And if I buy a full fare, would the company concerned refund me? It's now one of my local stations so it would mean a lot of paperwork!

 

[jon0844]

Old Street is LUL run, so they can't issue ticket extensions. I'm not sure if they can give discounts for Network Railcards, Gold Cards etc.

As a result, I travel as far as my season ticket will take me then ask to buy at the other end. Most of the time I'm let through, sometimes I'm charged the correct fare and one time they wanted to issue me with a £20 penalty until I successfully managed to convince her that she couldn't do so.

It is rather silly isn't it. It's an inconvenience for me at the other end, a PITA for gateline staff (hence most just letting me through for free) and downright confusing for Joe Public.

Actually, Old Street is an odd station in that you'd barely know there was an 'overground' rail service from there. There are no screens in the ticket hall to inform you whether the trains are even running, let alone if there are delays, yet the station is where NX and First both have offices. I'm amazed that nobody at FCC has ever tried to get LUL to install screens upstairs to give running information, or that TfL hasn't made it happen.

 

[t0ffeeman]

It was the first LUL station to accept LondonLines staff cards when FCC was WAGN strangely enough. The FCC pases don't have a magnetic strip on the back neither....

 

[Daniel]

LU stations can issue Gold Card discounts...

 

[jon0844]

Okay, so it's just the extensions they can't do. Sorry for introducing any confusion into the thread.

 

[Daniel]

Okay, so it's just the extensions they can't do. Sorry for introducing any confusion into the thread.

No problem, at least you said you weren't sure!

Also relating to your previous post, I've now been led to believe that LU stations can no longer issue penalty fares, so they can't be threatening you with that - only RCI's can do so.

 

[jon0844]

The PF 'threat' was at Welwyn Garden City (FCC), where I'd travelled on from my season (to Hatfield). I couldn't buy the extension from Old Street station (Hat - WGC) - but it was a FCC run station that I was going to and they figured I'd travelled without a ticket (yet, had I got on at Hatfield then I'd have needed to jump the gates or wall!). I've never actually been given a PF after I explain things.

I did it today, funnily enough, and had no problems at all. Asked for ticket, paid £1.70, took ticket to gate, lost it again, and off I went!

 

[bakerstreet]

Daniel wrote:
“LU stations can issue Gold Card discounts..”

I know they can issue Gold C discounts with a one day travelcard but they did seem pretty insistant that they couldn't discount an off peak return.

Could you tell me how you know this - do you work in an LU ticket office? Be worth knowing how they could do this or what to say to them so they can issue a ticket with this discount.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jon0844]

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I've managed to get an extension from Elstree & Borehamwood (the boundary of zone 6) to St Albans (with GC discount) at Farringdon for use on FCC Thameslink.

Now that's a LUL run station isn't it? If so, is it the fact that it's an extension from Z6? At Old Street, I'm after an extension of a season ticket that is outside the zonal system.

On that basis, is there actually any physical reason to stop LUL selling such a ticket? Are they not allowed to? Is it a revenue issue? Or is it simply that they don't have that fare information?

 

[Daniel]

Daniel wrote:
“LU stations can issue Gold Card discounts..”

I know they can issue Gold C discounts with a one day travelcard but they did seem pretty insistant that they couldn't discount an off peak return.

Quote from handbook:

In addition to the discount on the Zones 1-6, 1-9, or 1-9W Day Travelcard (Off Peak), lower Off Peak Cap and discount on the reduced rate NR rate for PAYG journeys, holders of Annual Gold Cards and NR Railcards are also entitled to discounted Single and Return fares on certain wholly NR journeys after 10.00 Monday to Friday, and at all times at weekends and on public holidays.

If you want to tell them where to look, the discounted fares are shown in the 'Through Fares to NR Stations' book supplied to the ticket offices by Rail Fares.

Could you tell me how you know this - do you work in an LU ticket office? Be worth knowing how they could do this or what to say to them so they can issue a ticket with this discount.

I have worked in LU ticket offices, and can see all the ticket office handbooks.

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I've managed to get an extension from Elstree & Borehamwood (the boundary of zone 6) to St Albans (with GC discount) at Farringdon for use on FCC Thameslink.

Now that's a LUL run station isn't it? If so, is it the fact that it's an extension from Z6? At Old Street, I'm after an extension of a season ticket that is outside the zonal system.

On that basis, is there actually any physical reason to stop LUL selling such a ticket? Are they not allowed to? Is it a revenue issue? Or is it simply that they don't have that fare information?

Ticket offices at the following LU stations issue a much greater range of NR tickets, including destinations outside this area, on behalf of NR TOCs:

Amersham, Greenford, Marylebone, Southward, Barbican, Harrow-on-the-Hill, Moorgate, Stratford, Blackhorse Road, Highbury & Islington, Old Street, Tottenham Hale, Chalfont & Latimer, Kentish Town, Paddington, West Brimpton, Chorleywood, King's Cross, Rickmansworth, West ham, Farringdon, Liverpool Street, Seven Sisters, West Ruislip, Finsbury Park, London Bridge, South Ruislip, Gunnersbury, Kensal Green, North Wembley, Stonebridge Park, Harlesden, Kenton, Queens Park, Wembley Central, Harrow & wealdstone, Kew Gardens, South Kenton.

Certain other LU stations also follow NR issuing criteria and sell an enhanced range of NR tickets. Detailed instructions are supplied directly to the stations concerned by Rail Fares.
NR Tickets issued at stations listed above can be purchased using any method of payment.