ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[380101]

Do you happen to know if it was a "Seven Cities" power car?

No idea. Although I'd presume so as its refurb set 4 and the last 3 all came up as complete refurbished sets.

 

[ld0595]

The in-service refurbished sets are limited to Edinburgh-Aberdeen, so that's probably why.

Mind you HSTs in Inverness bar the Chieftain were rather rare recently enough!

Happy to say that both my trains towards Inverness today (08:38 GLQ to PTH and 09:51 PTH to INV) were both HSTs and I very much enjoyed them. Light and day compared to the 170 on the way home. My colleagues who dont know anything about trains commented on how comfortable the first two trains were. (albeit the slam doors were a bit of a surprise to them!) Not much of a delay due to the slam doors - only 4/5 mins per train.

As many others have said, they will make a huge difference to intercity rail travel in Scotland!

 

[hexagon789]

Happy to say that both my trains towards Inverness today (08:38 GLQ to PTH and 09:51 PTH to INV) were both HSTs and I very much enjoyed them. Light and day compared to the 170 on the way home. My colleagues who dont know anything about trains commented on how comfortable the first two trains were. (albeit the slam doors were a bit of a surprise to them!) Not much of a delay due to the slam doors - only 4/5 mins per train.

As many others have said, they will make a huge difference to intercity rail travel in Scotland!

They will, the 170s were never really suitable from the get go for InterCity services.

 

[jingsmonty]

Went to and from Inverness today and walked around the area. Didnt see a refurished set at all - only a classic one. Eastfield had one though.

HA24 left Inverness sometime around the 10th - that week anyway.

 

[jingsmonty]

Do you happen to know if it was a "Seven Cities" power car?

It has to be one of the refurbished power cars to work with the refurbished coaches, as only they have the required traction interlock modifications to work with them

 

[jingsmonty]

I last heard if it at Inverness, but I'm glad it's getting about as that implies more crews from more depots are getting trained on them which can only be a good thing really.

The Inverness staff training will resume, I'm sure, once HA23 arrives. Just a shame HA24 was pulled, to be used for Queen St training instead

 

[jingsmonty]

They will, the 170s were never really suitable from the get go for InterCity services.

Totally agree

 

[jingsmonty]

Happy to say that both my trains towards Inverness today (08:38 GLQ to PTH and 09:51 PTH to INV) were both HSTs and I very much enjoyed them. Light and day compared to the 170 on the way home. My colleagues who dont know anything about trains commented on how comfortable the first two trains were. (albeit the slam doors were a bit of a surprise to them!) Not much of a delay due to the slam doors - only 4/5 mins per train.

As many others have said, they will make a huge difference to intercity rail travel in Scotland!

Just wait until the refurb sets (finally) start running - no more station dwell time delays!

 

[najaB]

It has to be one of the refurbished power cars to work with the refurbished coaches, as only they have the required traction interlock modifications to work with them

In service, yes obviously. But I wasn't sure about ECS moves.

 

[hexagon789]

The Inverness staff training will resume, I'm sure, once HA23 arrives. Just a shame HA24 was pulled, to be used for Queen St training instead

HA24 being which number of refurbished set?

Totally agree

As do many passengers it seems! Which is really good news I think, as it demonstrates the idea was worthwhile on the whole it's just the project is taking longer than it should've.

 

[jingsmonty]

In service, yes obviously. But I wasn't sure about ECS moves.

I think they are formed up at Doncaster as complete 'units' for testing, prior to departure. I'm not sure about ECS moves, the TIS isolation is in the power car & if it's an unrefurbished one, there's no way of gaining interlock through the jumper cables - I'm not sure if it would be possible to release the brakes without the electrical connection being 'made'.

To be honest, I might be able to answer that question properly once I do the conversion training for the refurbished unit...!

 

[najaB]

To be honest, I might be able to answer that question properly once I do the conversion training for the refurbished unit...!

Hopefully it will be soon.

 

[jingsmonty]

Hopefully it will be soon.

I'm hoping it will be imminent, with the expected arrival of HA23 next week!

 

[najaB]

I'm hoping it will be imminent, with the expected arrival of HA23 next week!

You'll need to let us know when you're passed on the refurbs - we can have a Scottish forum day out with you driving.

 

[chuff chuff]

Don't remember it being mentioned but would have thought if you isolate the TIS on the power car as that's where the control box is you could pull whatever fits just like the slam door.

 

[marks87]

Regardless of any technical issues, I'd have thought ScotRail would want all the delivery runs to be with refurbished power cars for PR reasons alone.

"Here's the fourth of our refurbished Inter7City HSTs travelling north...please ignore the tatty old power car on the front"

 

[najaB]

Regardless of any technical issues, I'd have thought ScotRail would want all the delivery runs to be with refurbished power cars for PR reasons alone.

Oh, of course. But if it was a choice between using a unrefurbished power car or not having the set delivered...

 

[marks87]

Oh, of course. But if it was a choice between using a unrefurbished power car or not having the set delivered...

True, but presumably the deliveries are carried out by whatever ScotRail send to Doncaster? And they'll certainly send refurbished power cars.

So if a power car does develop a problem at Wabtec, it's not as if there'll be an unrefurbished one lying around down there to swap-in.

 

[hexagon789]

Regardless of any technical issues, I'd have thought ScotRail would want all the delivery runs to be with refurbished power cars for PR reasons alone.

"Here's the fourth of our refurbished Inter7City HSTs travelling north...please ignore the tatty old power car on the front"

A delivered set is better than no delivered set. Also, surely an extra HST set is very welcome regardless of how it's delivered?

 

[najaB]

True, but presumably the deliveries are carried out by whatever ScotRail send to Doncaster? And they'll certainly send refurbished power cars.

All things being equal, yes. But again, it's not 100% guaranteed.

 

[43096]

Oh, of course. But if it was a choice between using a unrefurbished power car or not having the set delivered...

There’s only two power cars at Wabtec. 43028/129 from memory, both have been through Brush. Puzzled as to the significance of that and a compressor failure, though.

 

[Highlandspring]

One of the recently arrived additional three sets, HA33, has been out today. I think this is the first time any of them has been used in passenger service for ScotRail unless anyone knows differently..?

 

[Wst71Pa2]

HA24 being which number of refurbished set?
As do many passengers it seems! Which is really good news I think, as it demonstrates the idea was worthwhile on the whole it's just the project is taking longer than it should've.

Set at Eastfield, HA24, Refurbished no.3. Going nowhere anytime soon, traction interlock issues

 

[hexagon789]

Set at Eastfield, HA24, Refurbished no.3. Going nowhere anytime soon, traction interlock issues

Thanks for the update. I optimistically hoped HA24 was maybe refurb set no. 4!

 

[jingsmonty]

Don't remember it being mentioned but would have thought if you isolate the TIS on the power car as that's where the control box is you could pull whatever fits just like the slam door.

Yes, exactly. Refurbished power cars work Classic sets like this. But if you have an unrefurbished power car, there isn't a TIS to isolate...so the interlock circuit on the trailers can't be completed - I'm not sure if an unrefurbished power car can haul refurbished trailers?

 

[chuff chuff]

Yes, exactly. Refurbished power cars work Classic sets like this. But if you have an unrefurbished power car, there isn't a TIS to isolate...so the interlock circuit on the trailers can't be completed - I'm not sure if an unrefurbished power car can haul refurbished trailers?

Well they seem to move them round wabtec okay and you guys will be shunting around with the pug,my assumption is the traction interlock comes from the control box on the power car.
As I said it was never mentioned in training but that’s my reading of it.

 

[jingsmonty]

Well they seem to move them round wabtec okay and you guys will be shunting around with the pug,my assumption is the traction interlock comes from the control box on the power car.
As I said it was never mentioned in training but that’s my reading of it.

I'm sure you're correct - I just wasn't sure how it would work, as I think the TI works through the unused wires on the 36 wire jumper? Does make sense that it wouldn't have an effect if you didn't have a refurbished power car with an active TIS. I've not had the pug training yet, but I can hardly see that having a TIS fitted .

However, pretty sure that any refurbished coaches leaving Doncaster will be marshalled as a complete set, with refurbished power cars, as the whole thing would require rigorous testing prior to release - including the door/traction interlock system.

I'm probably thinking of the brake continuity setup on a DMU (train wire 4 and all that...)!

 

[jingsmonty]

I'm sure you're correct - I just wasn't sure how it would work, as I think the TI works through the unused wires on the 36 wire jumper? Does make sense that it wouldn't have an effect if you didn't have a refurbished power car with an active TIS. I've not had the pug training yet, but I can hardly see that having a TIS fitted .

However, pretty sure that any refurbished coaches leaving Doncaster will be marshalled as a complete set, with refurbished power cars, as the whole thing would require rigorous testing prior to release - including the door/traction interlock system.

I'm probably thinking of the brake continuity setup on a DMU (train wire 4 and all that...)!

P.s. in my defence, I've not had the conversion course for the refurbished set yet!

 

[big all]

Well they seem to move them round wabtec okay and you guys will be shunting around with the pug,my assumption is the traction interlock comes from the control box on the power car.
As I said it was never mentioned in training but that’s my reading of it.

in general you can shunt any vehicle in a yard or shed with some or all systems isolated or disabled as required for the movement
this can often be as simple as not charging the air system to stop the brakes applying
but systems need to be in place to allow movement off all vehicles as required for shunting and maintenance requirements otherwise nothing will happen

 

[chuff chuff]

I'm sure you're correct - I just wasn't sure how it would work, as I think the TI works through the unused wires on the 36 wire jumper? Does make sense that it wouldn't have an effect if you didn't have a refurbished power car with an active TIS. I've not had the pug training yet, but I can hardly see that having a TIS fitted .

However, pretty sure that any refurbished coaches leaving Doncaster will be marshalled as a complete set, with refurbished power cars, as the whole thing would require rigorous testing prior to release - including the door/traction interlock system.

I'm probably thinking of the brake continuity setup on a DMU (train wire 4 and all that...)!

The supply for traction interlock comes from the control box on the power car so the coaches will work like as you said a dmu train wire 4 and all that but without the ti control box there isn't a system to energise the wire.