Wot no HSTs on Oxford/Worcester line?

[BRX]

I travelled out to Oxford from Paddington yesterday; was going to go on a Worcester service but got to the platform and it was a crappy 166. Then this evening, waiting for a fast train to Paddington (origin Great Malvern) and once again a 166! I thought these services were supposed to be HSTs or at least an Adelante or whatever the FGW intercity DMUs are called. What's going on? Is this a recent change?

 

[devon_metro]

Some services are Turbos, particularly so on Sundays.

 

[Daimler]

It depends - some are Turbos, others HST - out of all Great Western fast trains to/from Oxford (or beyond), I believe just over half are HSTs.

 

[dk1]

Does FGW still operate Adelantes?

 

[SWT Driver]

Nope.

 

[MCR247]

No they dont

 

[Edvid]

A greater proportion of fast Oxford/Cotswolds services (at least Mon-Fri) are now covered by Turbos since the current timetable started.

 

[BRX]

Turbos seem a little inadequate for that length of journey, somehow.

 

[devon_metro]

Turbos seem a little inadequate for that length of journey, somehow.

All of the weekday trains to Worcester are HSTs. It's simply a fall back from NSE when many services were turbos. It's the only line where turbos are able to operate due to crew and linespeeds etc

 

[tbtc]

Turbos seem a little inadequate for that length of journey, somehow.

There's a lot of longer journeys on worse stock; I'd class the Turbos alongside 170s - you could easily travel further on a 156 or 158. Presumably the timings are interchangable between HST and Turbo?

Do the passenger numbers justify a longer train on a Sunday?

 

[Royston Vasey]

There's a lot of longer journeys on worse stock; I'd class the Turbos alongside 170s - you could easily travel further on a 156 or 158. Presumably the timings are interchangable between HST and Turbo?

Do the passenger numbers justify a longer train on a Sunday?

My girlfriend picked up a Great Malvern to Paddington 166+165 from Didcot last Sunday, it was certainly well loaded at Didcot and remained so to London, though with little or no standing.

It stopped further only at Reading and Slough taking 54 minutes to reach Paddington, compared to 52 on the following HSTs stopping only at Reading.

So yes the timings are comparable on this stretch at least and almost certainly beforehand as well, and the numbers probably don't justify more than 5 cars, in my limited experience of course.

Although it is a fairly long journey, it isn't really intercity and doesn't really need an intercity train. 2+2 seating would be a welcome improvement though I would say.

 

[BRX]

All of the weekday trains to Worcester are HSTs. It's simply a fall back from NSE when many services were turbos. It's the only line where turbos are able to operate due to crew and linespeeds etc

The one i (nearly) came back from this evening had started at Great Malvern, though - that's further than Worcester isn't it?

The seating isn't really what I'd want for a 3hr journey. A 158 or 175 maybe but those Turbo things feel like they should be on suburban commuter runs to me.

 

[Daimler]

Although it is a fairly long journey, it isn't really intercity and doesn't really need an intercity train. 2+2 seating would be a welcome improvement though I would say.

I would argue it certainly is an inter-city route. Whether or not the Oxford services need a 7/8 coach train is another matter though.

 

[jopsuk]

Remarshall the 166 fleet so there's a sub-fleet of four car units, give them 2+2 seating and you'd have... something like a diesel version of the Kings Cross-Cambridge and Kings Lynn services. Similar distances and times, similar trains. HSTs are screamingly overkill on Oxford services.

 

[37401]

The timetable will tell you, "no HST`s on mon-fri man nah mean buv", they only run Saturdays and maybe sundays but Ive never done sundays so I cant say

 

[Royston Vasey]

I would argue it certainly is an inter-city route. Whether or not the Oxford services need a 7/8 coach train is another matter though.

Just going between cities (in this case only Worcester/Oxford/London are cities) doesn't necessarily make it an intercity service in the rail sense. It is a 3 hour journey but the flows from Worcester to London are unlikely to warrant a full IC service on a Sunday afternoon.

The main flows are almost certainly Oxford/Didcot/Reading/Slough to London, and possibly use as a local service into/out of Worcester (all conjecture, would be interesting to see the facts)

Oxford to London is a regional service at best, Networkers do just fine for a similar length of route Cambridge/Kings Lynn to Kings Cross, albeit with 2+2 seating.

One thing that occurred to me is that the perfect stock for this route would be a 5 coach DMU with 2+2 seating. Now what might fit the bill there.........

 

[Daimler]

Just going between cities (in this case only Worcester/Oxford/London are cities) doesn't necessarily make it an intercity service in the rail sense. It is a 3 hour journey but the flows from Worcester to London are unlikely to warrant a full IC service on a Sunday afternoon.

Oxford to London is a regional service at best, Networkers do just fine for a similar length of route Cambridge/Kings Lynn to Kings Cross, albeit with 2+2 seating.

One thing that occurred to me is that the perfect stock for this route would be a 5 coach DMU with 2+2 seating. Now what might fit the bill there.........

Mmm. By 'inter-city' I was trying to imply that it warrants a train which offers its passengers inter-city levels of comfort - I personally think that using 365s all the way to Kings Lynn is ridiculous, but there we go.

Services in the peaks (in both directions) from Oxford to/from London definitely need HSTs, though.

 

[gordonthemoron]

London-Oxford-Worcester has 10 hsts versus 7 turbostars on weekdays, 6/8 on saturdays and 7/5 on sundays at the moment. The servcie in the opposite direction is similar but not exactly the same.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Mmm. By 'inter-city' I was trying to imply that it warrants a train which offers its passengers inter-city levels of comfort - I personally think that using 365s all the way to Kings Lynn is ridiculous, but there we go.

Services in the peaks (in both directions) from Oxford to/from London definitely need HSTs, though.

I do see what you mean, and 3 hours on a 165/6 wouldn't be my idea of fun, but most passengers using it would do so as a local service from Oxford and intermediate stations to London, which doesn't need intercity comfort. I think said passengers are probably spoiled in the week by having an IC train for a commuter/local flow, where as you say, the sheer length of an IC125 is necessary.

That isn't to say that an 8 coach Networker would be unsuitable if refurbished to the same standard as the 365s, and having used 365s a lot I find them suitable for even long journeys. The seats are more comfortable and the ambience preferable to a FGW HST IMHO!

I entirely agree that a 3+2 train for even Oxford to London is less than suitable. 3+2 on anything more than a 30-45 minute journey is not fit for purpose.